Tape 2, Side A

...I remember that in Teveria the air was very hot. And all... and the heat was so intense during the day that at night it was also very hot. Because the stones heated up from the sun, and there was very great heat. And the whole city would sleep on the rooftops, on the roof, and I {...} as well. But I rose several hours before, before the light of dawn. And I descended from the roof into the house, and our house had no windows—no, no... It was like a cave, and I descended from the roof; after midnight the air is a little cooler. And then is the main sleep, the main, the main vitality, and I then descended to the room. And we had a small number “2” lamp. [Rebbe Yisroel] {..} [Everything, everything that I have is not terrible. The main thing is that we succeed in doing what we need to do in this world. Continue.] Oy, oy, oy, oy, oy... In any case, I had a rav who studied “Raishis Chochmah” and other mussar books with me. [One of the friends recites the blessing “Boray pri ha’aitz.”] Amen. And I was very attached to Rav Tzvi, to Rav Tzvi Rosenthal; they called him... [Wait, wait, did you check? Yes.] They called him Rav Tzvi Litvak, and the family name was Rosenthal. And besides him, I also had several other rabbanim, because I greatly sought the service of Hashem in truth. Among the Slonim Chassidim, Slonim, there was one man called... there was, there was an old man. And a Torah scholar, yiras Shamayim, and a Kabbalist, and he was a very old man. And I, and I would engage with him as well, as well... so that he would draw me close to Hashem Yisbarach. And he inclined an ear, an ear, to all my words, and he was very astonished. For he saw: “What is this? There are other talented children, Torah scholars and yiray Hashem,

and no, and one does not hear from any of them that... that he suffers so much from the yetzer hara.” Nu, in any case, he received me with love, and I went every... almost every night, I went to the synagogue... After the evening prayer I went to the Slonim synagogue, and he was the last one to leave the synagogue. He and I walked together, and he already lived a little far from the synagogue. And I walked with him slowly, slowly, until we reached his home, and along the way I told him everything... All my pains, everything passing over me, and he wanted to help me, but, but... He spoke with me about emunah; certainly it did me good, but that it should... That it should take it away from me, that... that such a light as I needed should shine upon me—he did not have that. In any case, I had several, several guides, leaders, who studied with me. Oy, oy, oy. Until I became bar mitzvah. After the bar mitzvah I had—he drew me close—there was one, one man. His name was Rav Motl the Slonimer; in his old age he became the Admo”r of Slonim. And he drew me very close and taught me Zohar and Gemara and Mishnayos, and he was my rebbe. And I saw almost, almost... much time in his home. And I saw that he, that every moment he was only, only Torah study, only... And he was yiras Hashem, with good character traits. And I thought that he was an angel of Hashem of Hosts—Rav Motl—nu. And I searched with mesiras nefesh, and I told several people all my sins, everything that had passed over me. Because I wanted to emerge from the mud and I wanted to change. So I thought: if I disclose the illness, then they will know, and he will know, know better how to help me, how to help me. In any case, what passed over me passed over me, more and more, and more, until I became... until I became seventeen years old.

And then Hashem Yisbarach began to perform miracles and wonders with me. I saw the providence of Hashem Yisbarach—that He has compassion on me and helps me with every... and helps me every time. Oy voy. [Rebbe Yisroel] Ah... in any case. [..... that you should tell.] It is impossible to tell in every particular detail... [Tell.] Everything. [Tell.] Nu, but, but the main thing—what... how will I succeed? I will begin to tell what passed over me. How Hashem Yisbarach had compassion on me and brought about circumstances so that I would merit to draw close to the holy Rabbainu. One day I found a “shemos” book, without a cover, without a beginning, without an end—a “shemos.” In a garbage bin. So I took it so that it would not be disgraced; I took the book from the garbage bin and wal... Intending to throw it into a genizah, and I went from the courtyard to the genizah, and the genizah was in the yeshivah. I entered the yeshivah and went to the genizah to throw away the book. Then, before I threw away the book, I saw that the name of the book was “Hishtapchus HaNefesh.” [I do not understand—was it a book of “Shemos” or “Hishtapchus HaNefesh”?] Ah? [It was “Shemos,” “Shemos”?] [No.] “Hishtapchus HaNefesh.” [So you are saying it was a book of “Shemos.”] [No.] No. [A book with holy names.] [Ah, with holy names.] No, that is called “shemos,” without a cover. [Ah, that is called “shemos.” I did not know; I thought “Beraishis,” “Shemos.”] Ah, the book was, it was torn and without an end, without a cover. So I went to throw it into the genizah, as one does with all torn books and... Before I threw it into the genizah, I saw that the name of the book was “Hishtapchus HaNefesh.” “Hishtapchus HaNefesh”—that made an impression on me; perhaps it is good for me. I began to read it, and I saw that it was a kindness from Hashem Yisbarach, that I merited to find this book. Because every word was, it was good, it was for me...

Nu, from the time I found the book, I went with the book to do hisbodedus with the book. And I prayed as it is written there in Rabbainu’s name—how to do hisbodedus and how to pray. And I went into the fields; no one knew, like a theft—I stole myself away into the fields. And I had hisbodedus and read in the book and fulfilled what is written there. And for the first time in my life I saw that the power of this book, that the power of hisbodedus, kills all the destroyers, all the harmful forces, all kinds of disputes, all kinds of acts, all kinds of desires. I saw eye to eye that after the hisbodedus, when I returned to the yeshivah, I was like a new person. And I felt within myself: where, where are all, all, all the destroyers? They were killed. So I, I maintained this practice almost every day—to go out to the field, to the field with the book. And I had hisbodedus, and I saw new miracles and wonders, and... the likes of which, from the day I came to awareness, I had not seen. And this continued... for a time. Once I was reading inside the book, and I did not know from whom it was. From which... who, who was the author of the book, because it had no introduction, no beginning, no end. And I did not, did not know. And I kept the book, locked it inside my box, and almost every day I went to the field with the book and saw great new won... such as I had never had. And I did not know from whom the book was. Once I was reading the book in my room, and a, and a friend came to me. {Say the name?} [No, a friend.] No, a friend, a friend from the Karlin Chassidim. [Yoy.] And he saw that I was reading the book with great awakening. Then he saw the book; he saw that it was “Hishtapchus HaNefesh,” and he knew that it was one of the Breslov books. So he said to me—this friend said to me:

“You are reading this book?” Then I was greatly stunned and entered into great anger, and I said to him: “This book is holy of holies—what are you saying?” Then he said to me: “Animal, you do not know what there is—you know, you know nothing of what there is in the world. This is one of the Breslov books; it is forbidden to read them. What? The rav and all the Admo”rim and the whole world oppose it, and say that it is forbidden, that it is forbidden to read Breslov books.” For the first time in my life I heard that there is Breslov in the world and that it is forbidden to read the books. Then I said to him: “I do not listen to the whole world, to all the Admo”rim. This book is good for me. I have seen such wonders as are impossible to tell.” Then he said to me: “You are such an insolent person, brazen-faced, such a brazen person against the Admo”r and against all the Admo”rim. Then you are not a human being.” I said to him: “For me it is good.” Then he said to me: “This book is mine; I want the book.” I did not want to give it to him. I said to him: “I acquired it from ownerless property in a garbage bin.” Then he said to me: “This book is mine and I want it. I, I do not need it; I only want you not to read it.” Then he, he overpowered me and took the book from me by force, and I was left without the book, and I was left without the book. But I heard that there is a Chassidus in the world whose name is “Breslov.” So I, I was left without the book, but I continued to do hisbodedus, and I prayed to Hashem Yisbarach to have compassion on me as He had begun to help me and I found this book; and I know what, what, what it is, what, what, what... what it effected in me. So I asked Hashem Yisbarach to send me Breslov books and Breslov Chassidim. I arrived in Teveria and had not left Teveria. I did not know—Tzfas was close to Teveria.

And all, and everyone travels to Meron, as in Elul, on Lag BaOmer. And I was poor; I had no money. I did not travel to Tzfas. If I had traveled to Tzfas, perhaps I would have known; in Tzfas there were Breslov Chassidim. But no, I did not know of Breslov Chassidim. I asked Hashem Yisbarach to send me Breslov Chassidim. I thought: perhaps in Yerushalayim, perhaps somewhere in the world Breslov Chassidim can be found. So I asked, and this... Not much time passed, and Hashem Yisbarach accepted my prayer and sent me to Teveria, sent Rebbe Yisroel Kardonner. He did not want to move from Meron. [Who did not want to move from Meron?] Rebbe Yisroel Kardonner. [Ah, ah.] What did the Holy One Blessed Be He do? He sent him an illness on the hand, on one hand. And the pains were so great that by the natural order it was impossible to bear such pains. And he could not say Chatzos, nor pray, nor study—rachmanus. Then Rebbe Yisroel attributed it not, like the world, to chance. Rather he, he knew with complete emunah that it was from Hashem Yisbarach, and he began to think: Perhaps it is the will of Hashem Yisbarach that he travel to Teveria. Because in Teveria the chill is not so great; the cold is not so great. Then, then, then the illness would not hurt him so much, would not hurt him; he would not have such great pains. And he would be able to serve Hashem Yisbarach. But he was in doubt; he did not clearly know that he needed... that the Creator’s will was that he go to Teveria. So he did not want to move, even though... But he saw that the pains were intensifying more each time. And it was impossible for him. So he did much hisbodedus and prayed much to Hashem Yisbarach, that He illuminate in his mind a comp... a complete clarification: if it was Hashem Yisbarach’s will that he travel to Teveria, that he should know clearly to go to Teveria.

So he did much hisbodedus about this and prayed much about this, and... And after all this he opened the book “Likutay Halachos” and found in it that the Creator Yisbarach’s will was that he travel to Teveria. [On what page did he open the book?] Ah? [On what page did he open the book?] I do not know; he did not tell me. [By a hint. It is not written explicitly that he should travel to Teveria—by a hint.] Yes. The book was—this, this, this I know—that the book was “Yorah De’ah” from the first printing of, of Rebbe Nassan, because there was not then, then as today... [“Yorah De’ah” from the first printing of Rebbe Nassan.] Yes. So since he already knew clearly that the Creator’s will was that he go to Teveria, then it was “and he rose early in the morning,” and he went on Thursday to Teveria, ah. In that week when Rebbe Yisroel came, came on Thursday to Teveria, that week, that one, on Sunday we began to bake bread for sale. Because, because our livelihood was grinding coffee. And then it was wartime, so, so... [There was no coffee.] And there was no coffee, and we had nothing, nothing for, for a livelihood. So our relative, a family relation, Rav Binyamin Barzal— [Rav Binyamin Barzal.] Yoy, yes. He, he supported my mother as his own mother. And then the father and the mother thought that we would begin to bake bread. But who would give us even, even one kilogram of bread— [Flour.] flour with which to bake bread? Because everyone knew that we were poor. So she went to the rav, Rav Binyamin Barzal, and he said to her: “No, do not be afraid. I will tell the flour merchant to give you a sack, two sacks, however, however much flour you need.” So we began... yes, there was. We began to bake bread on Sunday, and he came that week on Thursday.

And he needed bread for eat... for... […] an evening meal. And when he descended from the donkey, he was, was in need of bread to eat, so he met— [Binyamin Barzal.] Rav Binyamin Barzal, and he asked him to show him where to buy a loaf of bread. Rav Binyamin Barzal, he knew all... he knew that we had begun to bake bread, so [unclear OCR: “they brought us to us”]. And I... And Hashem Yisbarach brought about the circumstance that I took out... We were five brothers in the house. And they were al... almost all older than I. And it was Providence that I took the loaf of bread and brought it out and gave it to Rebbe Yisroel. When I saw Rebbe Yisroel, his form, I thought: this man is a hidden tzaddik. And with him I will find what I am searching for. Emunah and yiras Shamayim and... I thought this, and he put his hand into his pocket and took out money to pay me for the bread. And I am thinking this, and then he said—he gave me the money and said to me: “Perhaps it is possible to eat the bread at your home?” Then I sa... then I felt that he knew my thought and my desire, that I wanted to have a connection with him. But I saw that this was a remote thing, because the father would not agree to it—not because he did not, did not want to. Because already on Thursday night we need to bake challah and bread and... and we need to make a night of it and sleep. And also the house is small, and we have no place for a guest to... a place to... eat. And we need to make a night of it, to lie down and... ...and he will humiliate me: “Why are you asking such a question?” So I... But I, because... because I wanted to have a connection with Rebbe Yisroel, strengthened myself with all my might and said, and said: “Whatever will be, even if he strikes me and humiliates me, I will ask the father—whatever will be.”

So I asked, and the father answered: “Yes, yes, a portion remains; a little cooked food remains from the meal. So give it to him. Bread alone—he, will he eat bread alone? Then give it to him.” Then I already saw that this was Providence from Hashem Yisbarach, beyond nature, that I should have a connection with, with this holy tzaddik. And so it was. They made the night; they recited Birkas HaMazon and Krias Shema, and they lay down to sleep. And I... and Rebbe Yisroel sat on, on, on a step, one step of the house. And I gave him more bread to eat, yes, and he washed his hands and recited the blessing “HaMotzi...” And when I heard the blessing from him, “al netillas yadayim” and “HaMotzi...” I saw that it was true: this was a hidden tzaddik, because I had never yet heard such a blessing; I had never yet heard it. I grew up among Chassidim, and they, and they study Torah and are yiray Hashem. But I had not heard such a blessing, and also a face, a form such as Rebbe Yisroel had, I had not seen, I had not seen. Then, then I gave him the... what remained from our meal, so that he should eat, eat it. Then he said to me: “I eat nothing at all, only bread and tea.” But we had no tea, and we had no machine, a kerosene stove; {...} there was... Only the rich had a kerosene stove, but the poor used coals. And it is a craft that one must know—how, how to make a fire—and I did everything, and... until I succeeded in lighting a fire and made tea. And each time I entered the house and said to Rebbe Yisroel— I did not know that he was a Breslover; I knew only that he was a hidden tzaddik. So I said to him in a whisper, in secret, in his ear; then I said to him: “Rebbe Yisroel...” I did not know. “You should know that you came to Teveria for my sake. I am such and such; I very much want to serve Hashem in truth.

And there were upon me, and there are upon me, hard battles, and I search all the days of my life. I search for a place where they will guide me and illum... and illuminate within me light, the light of Hashem, so that I merit to serve Hashem in truth. So you came to Teveria for my sake, and I ask you not to leave me!” And I, I saw that he was very moved, because immediately when he descended from the donkey, Hashem Yisbarach brought him to me, and he hears such words. He, he, he had needed to travel earlier. But the whole time he had no clarity that he needed to travel to Teveria, he did not want to move from Meron. Nu, oy voy... ...And I also saw Rebbe Yisroel with my own eyes; I saw what Breslov is. [What did you see? What?] I saw his prayer and his avodah and his Shabbos, his holy words, his desires. How he—what he suffered for me, what he suffered. He, he came to Teveria and found Yisroel Ber, so he already forgot that he had a family in Tzfas. And that there was Meron; he cast everything aside, everything—only Yisroel Ber. Oy voy, what, what, what... what was—it is such a story. It is especially, it is a special wondrous thing of which there is, there is no equal. [Tell, tell.] Oy. [] Nu, it is impossible to tell everything. [.....]... ...that he ate. Afterward we went, went; he told me he wanted to go to a synagogue. Nu, I went with him to a synagogue, and along the way I spoke with him and told him my situation, the... yes. And he heard everything, and I wanted to say vidduy devarim before him, and he did not want to hear. He said it was forbidden, that it was forbidden; he, this... Then I went to the synagogue of the Chassidim... [What is forbidden, what is forbidden?] Ah? [Which words are forbidden?] [Vidduy devarim, vidduy devarim.]

[Ah, vidduy devarim.] Vidduy devarim. [You wanted to make a confession before him and he did not let you.] No, only this—not; only in general, not in... no. [I understand.] Yes. [In general.] In general. So... and I spoke with him and wept before him, because I wanted so much, and I felt that there was healing with him, healings for me, and that he not abandon me, that he not, not leave me, that he not go to Meron. So I wept before him and said, I asked him not to leave me. And he heard such a thing, and I saw that he was— [moved] so moved, because he saw eye to eye [through the Providence of Hashem] that the Providence of Hashem Yisbarach was that he come to Teveria; he came to Teveria, straight from the donkey when he descended, straight to my home. And afterward I went with him to a synagogue, and all the synagogues were closed, and I did not know where the key was. Only one synagogue that was in Teveria, of the students of the Baal Shem Tov and of the grandfather of the holy Rabbainu— Rav Nachman Horodenker, Rav Klisker, all the holy tzaddikim— They built a synagogue beside the lake so that they could immerse in the lake and pray during the day whenever they wished. So that it would be close to the lake, they built the synagogue adjacent to the lake. And the lake—in winter, when there were many rains—the lake rose and entered this synagogue up to, up to halfway up the tables. The lake was in the synagogue and they could not pray there. And this synagogue was open, and the tables and chairs stood in the water until it went down, until... until the month of Nissan, until the water went down. So we entered this synagogue and climbed onto a table. And we studied Torah Zayin from Part Two, “Ki merachamam yenahalem.” And he studied this Torah with me the entire night. And I merited this: all the days of my life I had not felt the taste of Torah, the taste of yiras Shamayim, the taste of...

as on this night when he studied this Torah with me, this holy Torah, “Ki merachamam yenahalem.” Hey, nu, nu... We were in the synagogue while the lake was there the entire night. And I did not feel that... you need to sleep. [He also had candles in the basket.] And he also had candles and matches, which were precious if there was... And he was wealthy, and he was—he had candles, and he lit a candle and studied “Likutay Moharan” with me. Until close to the light of dawn. Until I heard the sound of my mother’s weeping, and she wept greatly as after someone had died. She wept greatly: “Oy, my son, my son, my son Yisroel Ber—my son Yisroel Ber is lost, lost!” And I heard. So I said to Rebbe Yisroel: “Oy voy, it is already after midnight, after... and my mother is searching for me, looking for me.” So I left the synagogue and went to my mother. And I went to my mother by following the sound; I reached her and said to her: “What is this weeping?” Then she said: “What have you done? Where, where did you go the entire night? In any case, you know now, all... they must throw into the garbage all the dough, all the challah, and all the bread.” Nu, and from this night there arose a commotion in Teveria—that this night, this night— [this night, different from all nights] Yisroel Ber became a Breslover, yes. [Bar mitzvah.] She told it; the neighbors from the surroundings, from the surroundings, came in the morning. “What was the weeping? What? What? What is this?” [What happened here?] What happened? Then she told them: “One man bought bread and went with him— [the entire night] and he was lost and did not return the entire night.” And... they did not know who it was. But in the morning, when I went to the synagogue and Rebbe Yisroel was in the synagogue and I spoke with him, they said:

“Nu, already, already what was done was done this night.” “This night.” Oy, oy, oy, oy, oy. Afterward, on Sunday, we went to the yeshivah. He studied with me, and we studied the books of Rabbainu. And Gemara and “Shulchan Aruch,” poskim. Nu, and they saw, oy voy: “Yisroel Ber, Yisroel Ber became a Breslover; Rebbe Yisroel Kardonner, he...” Nu, a machlokes rose against me, a great battle. [Tell everything.] And the father and the mother and the close family, and all, and the entire yeshivah, and everyone. [What did they do?] Ah? [What did they do? What is a machlokes? What? Did they speak? Shout? Hit? What did they do?] Hey, they... it is impossible to depict— [Depict it.] and to imagine. They had, they had great pity; only, only this they said: “Oy voy, Yisroel Ber became a Breslover; Yisroel Ber became a Breslover.” Nu, they went from the yeshivah; they went to the parents, to the father and the mother, and told them: “Do you know? Yisroel Ber became a Breslover.” Then Father said: “I am not worried. I know my son; he fulfills honoring his father. He—even if he sees that I send him into fire—there is, there is no equal to him. You know him; he is yiras Shamayim and he fulfills honoring, the mitzvah of honoring his father. So I... he will come from the yeshivah, and I will tell him that I do not want it. Then he certainly will not be a Breslover. I have no worry at all.” Then they, they answered: “You do not know what Breslov is. He will not listen to you. You need a heavy battle.” Then he said: “I am not worried. I know my son.” I came from the yeshivah. Then my father said to me: “I heard everyone from the yeshivah; Rav Motl and everyone came and said that you became a Breslover. Know, my son, have mercy on me. I do not want you to be a Breslover.

I want... you to be whichever Chassid you want, but not—only, only not Breslov.” Then I said to him: “Father, I, I—you know me, recognize me—I, I fulfill honoring my father. In this I will not, will not listen to you.” Ah, then he said: “You are right; they said that I do not know what Breslov is.” This was the first time in my life, the first time, that I heard that I did not, that... no, did not want to fulfill his word. Oy, oy voy, oy. What else happened? What happened? What happened? Now it is possible to tell. The rav, the rav, and Rav Motl, and all, and all, all the Chassidim, all the... the entire city was already boiling... [Minchah.] Ah, Minchah, Minchah—yoy, yoy, yoy... ...[We need a great meal, a royal feast tonight.] [..... something ....] We will be able to go and take dollars. [I have a little.] [...........................] [Good, all right, Chizkiyahu will exchange it for dollars.]... ...[All his life he danced and was happy once and much...] [Nu, Saba, will you play a niggun?] Yes, yes, sing. [The friends and Saba sing “Na Nach Nachma Nachman MeUman.”] [Saba, you told me that Tziporah went and saw you with Shazar, with President Shazar.] Nu, nu, nu, nu. [When? At which wedding?] [At a wedding, yes, yes.] [Or in the hospital, in the hospital?] [I was with him in the hospital too.] Yoy, in the hospital you were with him. [Yes, I was with him, correct.] At the time he gave me a kiss. [Correct.] Everyone became nulli... [Correct.] [What happened there?] [We—the nurse said: “It is impossible to enter.” So Father said to her: “Go in and say that Rebbe Yisroel Ber is here.” And she went in and she said... “Then let him in immediately, immediately.”

And he went inside, and he embraced Father and gave him a kiss on the hand. And he praised—he embraced him like this—it was given to him that he should give thanks for life, yes.] [He embraced him and gave him a kiss on the hand in the hospital—Shazar...] [In the hospital, and he said: “Oy, you came from Heaven,” I remember. “You came from Heaven. Now I already feel better, I already feel better. Come, sit. Thank you very much for coming. Nu, tell me something, tell me.” Yes, is that what he said to you? Tell me, tell.] [She said that he said to you, “Tell me something.”] [“What story, what story from the Rebbe? Tell, tell a story from the Rebbe.” And Father sat down beside him, and when he told it I had already gone, but I saw what love he had for Father. And how he embraced him and kissed him on the hand, and he said to him: “Now I already feel better.” Afterward he said to him, “Now you will tell me a story from the Rebbe.”] [And another time you saw him at...] [Another time at a wedding.] [At a wedding, also, yes.] [He came before the wedding—Father—he came to our home before Pinchas’s wedding. Then he came home and said to us, “That he had not heard from Father.” He received an invitation and came. And where was Father? Father was not at home.] No. [Do you remember? I remember this exactly.] Yes, he came in... [Then, and he climbed all the floors. Then Mother very much asked him to sit, so he sat a little and rested. But he said, “That he had many matters to arrange in Tel Aviv; he would come to the wedding in the evening, but...” Then Mother gave him something to drink, and he said, “You do not know what you have merited.” He said to her, “You do not know what a tzaddik you have, what a person you have, what, what a man. This is not a man,” he says, “this is something born from Heaven.” That is what he said to her.

“Do you know?” he asked her. “Who is your husband? Do you know who your husband is? I can tell you who your husband is.” And thus he spoke about Mother the whole time, and afterward he hurried to go; he finished drinking and left. And at night he came to the wedding, and Father and my uncle Baruch, they danced with... Do you remember? That you, with, with Undrait, danced?] [You with Undrait, Undrait.] With Pinchas. [Undrait, there was one Undrait.] Undrait. [His mechutan.] [The mechutan, the mechutan, Undrait.] The mechutan. [You danced with him; I have a photograph.] Yoy, yoy, yoy. [You danced.] [You performed a dance together, at Pinchas’s wedding.] Ah. [You did so at Pinchas’s wedding.] [And Baruch—I have the photograph—he is standing and clapping his hands. And the President is standing delighted; he stands looking, delighted.] [And the President of the state watched the spectacle, how you dance a dance before... at Pinchas’s wedding.] [How he danced.] [And he was delighted, President Shazar...] Yes. [was watching.] [He simply did not understand how such a person... One sees my uncle standing and in great delight like this; I have the photograph.] He was—he said to me: “That he had no possible way to come to the wedding.” [Yes.] Because there were then several very difficult matters. [Yes, affairs of state, yes.] And the Agency, and Goldman was at a meeting. [Yes, yes.] And he could not go. [Yes.] Goldman said: “It is impossible to go now.” He said: “That this...” [Then he said to Mother that his first route needed to pass by Father. He came here with the driver, who brought him; he climbed four difficult floors. We had some sixty-something steps, right? Father, in the building where you lived before.]

[Where? In Giv’as Sha’ul?] [Yes. So in Tel Aviv there were perhaps sixty-something steps, right?] [In Tel Aviv there were many steps?] Ho... He had miracles, yes. [He climbed.] [So he climbed all the steps; he truly came. Then Mother was so... Then she very quickly made him something to drink and asked him to sit, and he sat. And he truly had no words, he had no words. He said: “I knew that I would come here, I would come here, and I go and I succeed.” But how he said to Mother: “You do not know...”] [If I come here.] [I come, and afterward I succeed.] [Afterward I...] [“I will succeed, I will succeed.” I remember it word for word. But with him it was... also his sister. The sister of, of, of Shazar, very much loved Father. For her it was—he says: “That he gives him all the success in life; since he came to know him, things go well for him.” And then he became President. He says that Father came and asked her, apparently, “What do you say—will he be President?” His sister asked you.] Yes. [If Shazar—you said: “Yes, certainly.” You said that you opened the book, and it was written there exactly in connection with...]...