Tape 3, Side B

...He told his daughters, yes: “Yisroel Ber, Yisroel Ber, Yisroel Ber.” And the daughters too—they, they esteemed Rav Motl, their father, and knew that he was a great scholar, a man of great intellect, and what was I, what... what kind of, what kind of Chassid? But he told them: “I am ashamed before Yisroel Ber. I see his Shabbos—how joyful he is—and he has food. I do not, I do not know how he lives,” and... ...His daughters heard my Shabbosos, the zemiros and the joy and the... And they saw that I had nothing, that Rav Motl had given me chairs, yes. So Rav Motl was the greatest opponent, because his Rebbe, the Rebbe of Slonim, was a great opponent. And he was a great opponent, Rav Motl, yes. But nevertheless, he was a great opponent, yet nevertheless he loved me, yes, yes. So his daughters asked him; they spoke with him: “What is this? Why did Breslov not, not find favor in your eyes? We see that he, that he is such a servant of Hashem; he is always joyful, and he... What is this?” He was confused; he too was confused, yes. I gave him heart trouble. He was a great opponent, and I showed him: “You are an opponent? Good. ‘Aishes...’—listen to the Breslov ‘Aishes Chayil.’” He was left without hands or feet; he became nullified, yes. He was God-fearing, and not... He—this... he was so terribly immersed in opposition, yes, and he... And compared with him I was nothing, a gnat, absolutely nothing, and he had heart trouble; he could find no place for himself. He saw with his own eyes my Shabbos and his Shabbos, yes. And how, how can one be an opponent? Yes, he had troubles; I gave him heart trouble.

In any case, by the second Shabbos my wife already had shoes, blessed be Hashem. His daughters, Rav Motl’s daughters, came and said to him: “She has no Shabbos dress; a dress must be made for her.” So Rav Motl sent me to a certain merchant who dealt in remnants—remnants, pieces, yes. And he was—the merchant was, was selecting large pieces so that there would be enough for a dress. So he sent me to him, and he gave me—he had merchandise that was enough for, for, for a dress, yes. And she was a seamstress, and she sewed it, and she also had a dress for Shabbos. And there was a tremendous spectacle. His daughters, they, they heard the opposition, and they heard my “Aishes Chayil,” so they, they gave Rav Motl trouble. “How, how can one oppose such a Jew, who says such an ‘Aishes Chayil’? Nu, can one be an opponent?” Yes, I made them—for Teveria, for... the Slonimer Chassidim were the greatest opponents. And I gave them such troubles, yes. But not (not understood). They had a yeshivah at Rebbe Meir Baal HaNes—the yeshivah— and they had more there than all the yeshivos of Yerushalayim, yes. And they gave me two liros a month instead of ten, twelve, fifteen; they gave me two liros. So they said, “They give me only out of pity, because he has small children and he needs bread. But he is not a yeshivah student; he, he does not study Gemara. He studies Likutay Moharan, Likutay Tfilos, and Tehillim. Is that a yeshivah? Is that a yeshivah student?” But the Likutay Moharan and the Likutay Tfilos and the Tehillim—this made, made great troubles for them, yes. Once Rav Shlomo came to Teveria, the Sephardic gaon, the Chacham Bashi, and he, he was old.

[Chacham what? Chacham.] And a gaon—Alfandari. [Ah, Alfandari.] And he was a gaon and a tzaddik. He was alone; he had no wife, and he was... yes. He came to Teveria, and I entered to see him among the Sephardim, and I entered to see him and asked him: “I want the privilege of attending to him,” yes. Nu, I asked him, and he was a gaon and... nu, let it be so; he... He agreed that I could put on his shoes, make him tea, clean, and... attend to him. I, I... He was a gaon, and he had heard of Rabbainu Rebbe Nachman, that he was a gaon, and... ...What—what joy we must have that we merited in this world to be— to be close to Rabbainu. We do not know. This, this... There were several great men who, who thought they were Mashiach, who... they, they spoke such words. But, but it was not true; they were mistaken, yes. Only with the holy Rabbainu there is no mistake whatsoever. Whatever statement he revealed is clear and certain, a law given to Moshe at Sinai. So tonight I awoke after midnight. I awoke, washed my hands, and wanted to occupy myself with the book of Tehillim. I cannot see, but this Tehillim I can see with difficulty, yes—this one, specifically this one, this, this Tehillim. So I wanted to remain awake, and sleep fell upon me, yes, and I lay down and slept. And I had a dream. Such a dream—I do not know how I remained alive! How did I remain alive? I, I saw that I had such anguish, and what happened—what passed over me. What passed over me? I heard people say, say—I was—it seemed to me perhaps in Yerushalayim. The dream was that I was in Yerushalayim, and I wandered around certain places in Yerushalayim, as though outside the city, as though... I wandered there.

Then people whom I did not know, whom I did not recognize, told me: “There is a pit here whose size and depth are, are beyond measure.” That is what I heard, yes. “There is such a pit...” In any case, I had a desire to see the pit, to see this pit. I wandered, wandered, and they told me—or I sensed— oy, I am not certain whether they told me that this, this was the pit, or, or I sensed it. In any case, the mouth of the pit was large, yes, and it was very deep. And its size and depth were beyond measure. In any case, I went to the pit; I saw the mouth of the pit, and they told me: “This is it; here there is such a pit,” yes. So I went to the pit to see, to see the pit. In any case, I went and saw that this—the magnitude of the fear merely to see the, the size of the pit... From the magnitude of the fear—I was above the mouth of the pit. In any case, I had great fear at seeing the pit. I slipped beside the pit, as I was standing at the pit, and I fell into the pit. I fell into the pit, so I do not know how I remained alive. I saw that I had fallen into the pit and had no, no hope whatsoever. Such a pit—in another moment I would be a heap, a heap of bones. But... I felt that anguish over what would happen, what would become of me in, in another moment, what... I had such anguish, such fear. In any case, I fell—I fell into the pit. So I fell, fell, fell. I fell and reached—the pit had water in it, and I, and I know how to swim. So just as the anguish was great over what... over knowing what would become of me in another moment—a heap of bones— so when I saw this, such a pit, and I was in dan... and I was... in such danger, I was... nu, I saw that I had fallen into water and I know... know how to swim. So it was water, so already... {there is no...}

Such a pit, deep, such depth and such ruin—desolation—it was a desolate thing, yes. And I fell into water after all the danger, after all the fear, after... {this is frightening}. I had not seen the water, but I fell into water. Nu, I saw death and, and rescue. How, how, how did water come here? And... In any case, that is how it was: I fell into water and there was no danger whatsoever. Only, Heaven forfend, if no one knows—did not know—that I fell into the pit, what then would the water be worth? How long can one live without, without, without food? How many days—a week? If they do not take me out, then if they do not know, I am alive, but in a few more days I, I will die. There is, there is, there is, there is, there is no food in the pit, yes. Nu, but somehow it seemed to me that people saw—there are people who saw that I fell into the pit. So certainly they will devise ways to take me out, so I was a little... I had a little relief, a little confidence that they would come and take me out. And they would devise every kind of means to take me out of the pit, yes. That is the dream. I do not know whether I ever had another dream like it—such anguish, that I fell. At the moment I fell—what would be? Then the... the anguish was something impossible to describe. In another moment I, I... what would become of me in another moment? But at that very moment, the... miracles—that I did not, did not, did not remain dead— only from the fear, from this fear, yes. And the anguish, this anguish—I saw that I had fallen. I had been outside and suddenly I, I fell into the pit. It entered my mind that this dream hints at “There is no despair in the world at all.” Through... what, what is water? The waters of Rabbainu’s Torah are the water! Water—water is Torah, the waters of Torah, yes.

Through, through the waters of Rabbainu’s Torah, even when one falls into such a place that one thinks there is no hope whatsoever— there is hope! I fell into water. And this—I am telling it in words, but it is impossible to describe the moment of, of fear— of the anguish I had when I saw that I had fallen into the pit, that I had fallen, that I was in the pit— with nothing... no place to take hold, as... Who can describe that moment? And moreover, a great strengthening from this dream: “There is no despair in the world at all.” I had already fallen into the pit and had nothing, with no hope whatsoever—and there is water! And also what, what Rabbainu revealed. Oy voy, oy voy, what... what the holy Rabbainu made from simple souls, completely, completely distant from Torah, from Yiddishkait. {These were} coarse people, who did not know the scent of Torah; they did not know. And when they drew close to Rabbainu, there were made from them such holy tzaddikim as had never existed— above, above nature. This is a new matter. And one sees Dovid HaMelech—Dovid HaMelech in Tehillim. All of Tehillim: “Mizmor, mizmor, mizmor,” “L’Dovid mizmor,” “LaMenatzayach l’Dovid mizmor,” “mizmor.” There is, there is “mizmor,” and there are several modes of, of, of speech. Oy, yoy, oy, oy, oy. Also, “Mizmor, sing to Hashem a new song”— “a new song.” Dovid HaMelech did not say—he said, “a new song.” He is entirely new; he is new. “A new song”—the holy Rabbainu is “a new song”; the holy Rabbainu is this song. And here in the Petek Rabbainu reveals a small mat... a slight thing: “Na Nach,” yes. For sixty years I did not know of this. I only knew that it was a wonder, that it revived me, that it... yes. Every time something fell upon me, when I fell, I took the Petek and read it, and I was—and there came about, there came about a different matter, and there came about “a new song.”

Oy, oy, oy. And like this there are many “new songs”—“a new song,” “a new song.” Dovid HaMelech is Rabbainu, that... The holy Rabbainu is... The holy Rabbainu surpassed all the tzaddikim, all the tzaddikim who existed from the day the world was created. This is a wondrous matter of the Holy One, blessed be He: that then there should be, that... in the final generations, what there would be— what, what there would be—such heresy, such falsehood, such deeds. And the Holy One, blessed be He, saw and knew. So He knew: ah, in the final generations? The holy Rabbainu must, must descend into this world—Rabbainu Rebbe Nachman, his soul, into this world. If not, Heaven forfend, there would be such destruction that there would be no hope whatsoever. Only Rabbainu. And the holy Rabbainu already hinted in the Ma’asiyos that they led a soul to demand that it descend into this world, yes. Then came, then came the Samech-Mem, the Angel of Death, the evil inclination, the evil one. He argued; he had claims. There is a Din Torah—what is this, is it ownerless? He said: “What, what? If this soul descends into this world, then I have nothing, I have nothing to do—nothing. Was I created for naught...?” He, he argued: “Was I created for naught? Why did You create me? Then I have nothing, I have nothing to do—nothing,” yes. And he went. Afterward he... they told him—the sou... I had a Din Torah, yes, and we decided: “This soul must descend into the world! And you, and you—devise a strategy for yourself, devise a strategy!” So, so he, he went to think of a strategy. He returned; he said: “I already have a strategy! Yes,” he said... “He can descend. Breslov—there will be such a dispute!” Such words—this is in Chayay Moharan in print. But no, no, no, no, no—they do not feel it. The world is so coarse that it does not...

Even the great ones, even geonim, do not feel what there is in this, what... yes. How, how do they have a share in... in Breslov? Yes. Each one according to, according to his self-sacrifice; according to, according to what he suffers... ...She said to him: “A divorce, a divorce, a divorce.” Rebbe Noson—we know nothing of how Rebbe Noson and his people were able to live. There was such degradation and such cruelty—even toward non-Jews there is no such cruelty—yes, Breslov! Yes, oy, oy, oy... And I, and I merited to be such a warrior. I stood against great men who were esteemed and great throughout the world. Yerushalayim—Yerushalayim was a city of geonim, of great Torah scholars, and not everyone was esteemed or famous. And Rav Moshe Klirs was famous throughout the world and in Yerushalayim, and everyone esteemed him. And they had (not understood). And he had a reputation as such a gaon, a wise and learned and discerning man, and a tzaddik—an upright man. He had all the titles, yes, for he was so great. And I knew this. I was born in Teveria, and he was the rabbi in Teveria; I heard this and knew it. And I became Breslov; I drew close to Rebbe Yisroel. So I had miracles. Rav Moshe Klirs says: “Do not become Breslov!” And my father says: “Do not become Breslov. What, are you mad? What, what is this? How, how is such a thing possible...?” Yes. And Rav Motl—Rav Motl was also great in Torah, not, not, not as famous as Rav Klirs. Rav Klirs was famous in Yerushalayim; everyone esteemed him and stood before him as before a king, yes. This is a known, known and famous matter, yes. And he pursued me over Bres... over, over the fact that I was Breslov, yes. And I was a warrior against Rav Moshe Klirs and against Rav Motl of Slonim.

Rav Motl was also great, a great gaon in Torah. But Rav Motl’s talents were greater than Rav Moshe Klirs’s, yes. Because he was, he exerted himself greatly over, over, over—until he reached his level. And Rav Motl did not need to exert himself. He only saw some matter in the Gemara or Midrash once. He only saw it, and he acquired it forever and ever, forever and ever, yes. And Rav—and Rav Moshe Klirs was not, not so—his grasp was not as strong as, as Rav Motl’s. And he knew this too. But he, he had a famous name in Yerushalayim and throughout the world. And I stood against him. I drew close to Rebbe Yisroel. And he pursued me and spoke with me: “Breslov—we, we have heard from great men, from holy tzaddikim, about Breslov.” What? I had not heard. This, this, this is such a wondrous matter, yes. And Rav Motl—I was a poor child, and Rav Motl, he, he was a great scholar, but he was also— a lover of mitzvos like simple people—a mitzvah, yes. Not like Rav... Rav Moshe Klirs—for him this mitzvah was something small, only genius and wisdom. But Rav Motl had both; he was also a lover of mitzvos. And he—Teveria is a small city—he knew me, and besides that, Teveria is a small city. He... I, I found favor in his eyes. He saw me, that I was not talented. But my truth and my heart—he loved me very much. I was in his home as in my own home, more than home; more than my own home, I came with him, prayed with him, slept at his place, and studied with him at night, yes. And he... and there was such a bond between us. But I was a simple child, and he was Rav Motl of Slonim; he was a gaon and great and wise, and wise.

And I did not know as much as—even as much as a gnat compared with him, yes. Good. And there was great love between us. He studied with me; he loved me like, like his own son. And he had two daughters. The daughters were like my sisters—Soroh and Feige. My sisters, yes. And I came with Rav Motl. They gave Rav Motl food in the morning, at noon. So they also brought food for me as well. Yes, I was like, like a son—an only son. Afterward, when I merited to draw close to Rabbainu, it was—when I merited... Rebbe Yisroel came to Teveria. The episode had already occurred—how I drew close to Rebbe Yisroel was— that night, the whole night, I was with Rebbe Yisroel in the synagogue of the disciples of the Baal Shem Tov, by day. And the whole city knew, because my mother wept and... In all the places, she, she searched for me in all the synagogues and wept: “My son, my son, my son,” and the whole city came: “What, what?” They thought someone had passed away, that someone had died. They came: “What is all the weeping and shouting?” She, so she told them: “A man came and bought bread, and he ate the bread in our home, and he took Yisroel Ber, and he... and he went the whole night. I got up for work and Yisroel Ber is not here, is not here.” And this was the beginning of the war, and the Turks were savage people. They—if only they saw— that they saw some person who had hands and feet, hands and feet, they took him into the army, yes. So she thought, “Perhaps I have hands and feet, so perhaps they took me into the army.” She wept, and the whole city was in an uproar. Ah, in the morning they saw me and Rebbe Yisroel, so they said: “Oy voy, Yisroel Ber was the whole night with Rebbe Yisroel.

So certainly he, he has become Breslov; he was the whole night with Rebbe Yisroel.” Who, who had the courage to speak with, with a Breslov Chassid, or to read a Breslov book? He was afraid lest there be—lest there be even mere suspicion. Then why {this Torah, why this Torah}? He would not obtain a marriage match. And blessed be Hashem, I paid no attention and looked at nothing. Rav Moshe Klirs and Rav Motl— and a marriage match, and everything—I gave up everything, everything. Only what I saw—what Rebbe Yisroel is, what this is, what, what this is, yes. To this day I have this name. It is already... eighty years since I drew close to Rebbe Yisroel. And they were all such opponents, and I, and I, blessed be Hashem, received all the bullets— all, all the humiliations and all the troubles—with love and with great heroism, and they all became nullified through it. They saw my heroism; it was not in the natural order. They did not understand it. And Rav Motl, he thought—he, only he... I saw from Rav Motl that he was great in Torah and... yes, and I studied with him, nu. This was a miracle. If he says, “Breslov—no!” then immediately... But I saw what I saw. I saw Rebbe Yisroel; I only saw him. The first time in my life, I did not know who he was, so I said: “Oy voy, this man is a tzaddik. I need him very much. If I had some connection with him, I would, I would merit to serve Hashem in truth as I desire. How—but how will I have a connection with him? He will buy the bread, pay, and go—and how?” So I—as I thought about, about, about a connection: if only I could have a connection with this man, with this tzaddik— then he asked me: “Perhaps it is possible for me to eat the bread at your home?” Then I felt:

“What is this? Does he know what I am thinking, what I want? But what is this? He has nowhere—where he will sleep, eat—what is this? Is this a hotel?” In particular, he—Rebbe Yisroel—saw our, our, our dwelling. It was like a cave, a cave; this, this, this... And inside the cave small children were sleeping, and they needed to bake the challah on Thursday night— they needed to bake the challah, yes. And he asked, “Perhaps it is possible to eat the bread?” So it was, it was a wonder in my eyes. “How does he know what I am thinking, what I want? Who, who said—who told him?” So, so thoughts arose in me: perhaps he is... But I wanted to ask my father. I, I cannot bring a guest into the house. I need to ask my father. Nu, so I was afraid: what are you asking your father? Your father will strike you and humiliate you. What are you—you ask such a thing? There is, there is—this is a cave, and they need to bake bread. What are you asking such a thing? But I said, “Whatever will be, I will ask him.” And I asked him, and he agreed, and what came about came about. The whole night I was with Rebbe Yisroel at the lake, on a table at the lake. And from that night until now, blessed be Hashem, I hold my ground, blessed be Hashem. But what passed over me and over Rebbe Yisroel, what we suffered— Rebbe Yisroel: if someone were to give one person all the money in the world in exchange for one day, he, he would give—he would not want the money and would not want, and would not want such a task. And he gave his soul for me. What? One man, Yisroel Ber—what will come of this? Will the redemption come from this? And he saw this, how it was arranged. He descended from the donkey from Tzfas; he descended—in Teveria he descended from the donkey.

Then he met Rav Binyamin Barzal and asked him: “Show me where to buy bread.” And he showed him to our place, and from this came about, from this came about a structure for generation, for generation after generation— for the world, forever. This, this is a wonder: how I was like an only son to Rav Motl, and I upheld him; he... I esteemed him as a tzaddik and a gaon and... yes, yes. And I saw—I slept at his place, studied with him at night, and there was a bond of great love between us, yes. And he said to me, “Breslov, Breslov—no!” He told me many things; he instilled poison against Breslov in me—what this one said, that one said, this one said—and I, and I... And I believed in all of them. If, if they say this about Breslov— but I saw Rebbe Yisroel. This was, I became... I merited such heroism as there is no such heroism in this world— such heroism, how I stood against, against such great men, yes. And also against my father and mother and against the whole family, yes. Everyone wept; everyone had pity on me—what will become of him? “He has become Breslov; Yisroel Ber has become Breslov.” Oy voy, oy voy... However much I tell, it is still not, still not like a drop from the sea of what, what, what happened. “Seeing is not like hearing.” In this I see that the main thing is self-sacrifice for the Holy One, blessed be He, for the Torah. Wisdom is also good. But, but the main thing—the foundation and main thing of Yiddishkait, the main thing of the Torah—is self-sacrifice— the strong will. And the holy Rabbainu also hinted at this and said—there is a conversation in which Rabbainu says: “Give Me your hearts, and I will lead you on a new path. This is a very old path, upon which our fathers never walked. And nevertheless, it is entirely new.” Nu, one must give the heart. And blessed be Hashem, I, I gave all my life and my heart, my father and mother and the whole world.

I gave everything for the sake of drawing close to Rabbainu. This is a wonder; this is a very wondrous matter. So there was the chief rabbi of the city, the great rabbi of the city—in particular, Rav Klirs. Everything he said had to be fulfilled immediately, yes. And he said—he said to me, “Breslov—no!” And I did not listen to him at all, yes. And he, and he thought, “There is no one who, when I tell him something, will not listen to me—only Yisroel Ber.” And also the dream—the dream I had after the passing of Rebbe Yisroel— was the dream of the waves, of... I was in the sea, and there were waves. Such great waves, like mountains, mountains. I saw a mountain of water coming—(not understood). I thought—and it came in anger straight at me, straight, and I said: “Oy voy, in a few more moments it, it will reach me. What will become of me? Then I will die. There is, there is no hope whatsoever, yes; then I will die.” And so it was. It came in anger, in haste, and went to kill me, as one goes to kill. It fell upon me and... And I was completely despairing, but I saw that I, that I was rising over, over the mountain, that I was rising in the water— rising, rising, until I reached the end and stuck out my head and remained alive. I was able to breathe air, and I remained alive. Such a dream? Good. The wave passed, and I remained alive. But I see a mountain, a new mountain, a new wave. It comes like this—what will be now? Miracles do not happen every time; what will become of me now? Nu, what? How does it come? It, it does not ask me; it comes at me. A new mountain fell upon me. And also, and also there was a miracle that I rose in the water over the mountain until, until— until I stuck my head out of the, out of, out of the water and remained alive.

Nu, good, blessed be Hashem—twice. But, but the sea does not—it is turbulent, and it... And new waves come, keep coming. What will become of me? What will come of this? Not every time... I, I felt the danger I was in—such waves, such mountains. Nu, I was despairing. I saw the danger—what, what, what there was. Every time there is—I see miracles. I rise over the wave, I rise over the mountain, I rise from the water— until I reach the end, stick out my head, and draw breath, and I remain alive. But, but perhaps... perhaps now, who knows what will yet be? I saw, I saw and felt the danger—where I was. Suddenly I see a great building in the sea, not far from me—such a building, a great, beautiful building, such beauty. I said, “What is this? What? How can such a thing be? Are there buildings in the sea?” Suddenly I saw—I had seen nothing, only the waves— and suddenly I saw in the sea a magnificent and great building—a building! I was astonished: “How is it possible? In the sea, in the sea—is there, can there be a building?” But I see a building. So I thought perhaps this is a hint about, about that... about the fact that I, that I will merit to be saved from the sea, because there is a building. Perhaps I will reach the building. I certainly made great efforts and could not reach the building. And I was almost next to the building, and a wave came and swept me away, and I was distanced from the building. What? So what will be? I have a place of rescue, but I cannot, cannot... I have no strength to reach the build... There is, there is no possibility whatsoever of reaching the building. It is beside me, and I—and it is impossible for me to reach the building...