Tape 4, Side A

…And also the dream—the dream I had after the passing of Rebbe Yisroel. It was the dream of the waves, of… I was at sea and there were waves, such great waves, like mountains, mountains. I saw a mountain of water coming, (not understood). I thought—and it came in anger straight toward me, straight, and I said: “Oy voy, in another—in another few moments it—it will reach me; what will become of me? Then I will die; there is—there is no hope at all, yes, then I will die.” And so it was: it rose in anger, in haste, and went to kill me, as one goes to kill. It fell upon me and… and I was completely despairing. But I saw that I—that I was rising over—over the mountain, that I was rising in the water, rising, rising, until I reached the end and stuck out my head and remained alive. I was able to breathe air and remained alive. Such a dream? Good, until—the wave passed and I remained alive. But I see a mountain coming, a new mountain, a new wave. It is coming like this—what will be now? Miracles do not happen every time; what will become of me now? Nu, what? How is it coming? It—it does not ask me; it comes toward me. A new mountain fell upon me. And also—and also there was a miracle: I rose in the water over the mountain, until—until— until I stuck out my head from the—from, from the water, and remained alive. Nu, good, blessed be Hashem, two times. But—but the sea is not—it is turbulent and it… and there come—new waves keep coming. What will become of me? What will come of this? Not every time… I—I felt the danger of having such waves, such mountains. Nu, I was despairing; I saw the danger—what, what, what there is. Every time there is—I see miracles; I rise over the wave, I rise over the mountain, I rise from the water.

until I reach the end and stick out my head and breathe, and I remain alive. But—but perhaps, perhaps now—who knows what will yet be? I saw—I saw and felt the danger, where I was. Suddenly I see a great building in the sea, not far from me, such a building, a great beautiful building, such beauty. I said, “What is this? What? How can such a thing be? Are there buildings in the sea?” Suddenly I saw—I had seen nothing, only the waves— and suddenly I saw in the sea a magnificent and great building—a building! I was astonished: “How is it possible? In the sea—in the sea, is there—can there be a building?” But I see a building, so I thought perhaps this is a hint about—about that… about the fact that I—that I will merit to be saved from the sea. Because there is a building; perhaps I will reach the building. I certainly made great efforts and could not reach the building. And I was almost beside the building, and a wave came and swept me away and I—and I was distanced from the building. What? So what will be? I have a place where I can be saved, but I cannot— cannot… I have no strength to reach the build… There is—there is no possibility at all of reaching the building. It is beside me, and I—and it is impossible for me to reach the building, until I merited—I made such a supreme effort—and until I succeeded in touching the railing of the building, like—only so… only so that I could hold onto the railing. I felt: now, blessed be Hashem, now I—I can climb the steps, onto the building, and there is no sea, no waves, nothing at all. Yes, now I have hope. Nu, I climbed—there were many steps—and I held the railing and climbed with great joy. Every—every moment was worth immeasurably much, and I had great joy: I had merited to emerge from—from danger, from such dangers, and I was in the building, on the building, on the steps. Up, up—I climbed the steps until I reached the end.

until I reached the door of the building. I reached the door of the building, so I opened the door and entered, and there was… what do you call it…? [A corridor?] A corridor, yes. […] Yoy, there was a corridor. On one side there were beautiful windows, and on the other side—I came in here through the door— and on the other side there were doors; there was a wall with doors. Good. So I passed the first door and wanted to open it, to see what—what was there, what… And I did not open it—not deliberately, no, I did not open it. I said, “What is this? Why—why did you not open it?” So—so I thought: I—now I will open. There are many doors. So I went, and again I reached a door and again did not open it. And I was—and I was angry at myself: “Why did you not open it?” I did not open it and passed the door, and also—and like this, all—all the doors: I passed them and wanted to open them and did not open them, until I reached—this is the dream, it is such a dream— until I reached the last door of the building. This—this is already after the whole building; I had passed all the doors and… until I reached the last door of the building, which was already… I reached the last door, so I opened—I opened and saw… a room. I opened and saw a room. There was a table and a chair there, and on the chair sat a great elder, and a beard of such beauty, so white, such grace. And also his form—his face—had such grace as one does not see in this world, such grace, such sweetness. So I was very ashamed. I saw such an elder; I saw this elder and saw his face. So I became very ashamed and my heart sank. “How do I have a place here—to be in this room and to see such an elder?” I was very ashamed, and I wanted to greet the elder, but I did not—I did not find the courage in my soul to greet him.

How?… And I am so distant; I… how do I have a share— such a share, to give—how do I have the boldness to greet this elder? Yes. So—so the elder was like this: this elder extended—held out his hand, and greeted me and took my—my hand and held my hand with great love and with a rocking motion, yes, and with “Shalom aleichem.” And he continued and held me with great love—such a greeting, such closeness. I did not have such boldness, but he did it; so what—what could I do? So I accepted it and woke up—and woke up! So I remembered the entire dream, and I remembered… Until today I see his face as I saw it then. In the natural order a dream is forgotten, yes—at least the form. But as I saw the chair with the elder upon it, and the elder, and the description of the face— such a face—I remember it as I see it now, yes. So I had yearnings and longing: I want to know who this elder was! Perhaps Eliyahu HaNavi? Some—someone… some great one? Who was this elder that I saw? So apparently I had yearni… Out of yearning, I fell asleep, and it was said to me—and I thought in my mind: “I will take a book and open it; perhaps I will find there some hint as to who the elder is.” And so I did. I woke up and took a book and opened it. It was the book “Chayay Moharan” from the first printing—“Chayay Moharan.” And I opened it, and the eyes that were given… …[What—what did you see?] I opened the book… [Chayay Moharan.] “Chayay Moharan,” and I set my eyes on this passage, where our holy Rabbainu reve… was… revealed—revealed that “whoever will merit it, I will appear to him in the form of an elder.”

This—this—this—this is what I saw. So I already knew that the elder was Rabbainu. Such a good dream. Oy… …And I was a child; I was a child. And from the time I came to my senses, even when I was a child, my heart was—was yearning to serve Hashem, to learn Torah, and to give my soul for the service of Hashem. And I prayed with deveykus, with fiery enthusiasm, and with movements; and I prayed. And there was a certain old man there who was from the Chassidim of Bian. They—they—they do not pray with force and not aloud and not… only in a whisper, yes. Nu, but even so I—I had boldness and did not look at them, and I… So this elder came to me every day; he… and gave me a valuable coin—like this, he gave me. He was known in the city as such a miser. He gives in charity the smallest coin there is, the smallest possible—a piece of tin, yes. And he gave me—gave me. When I came home and gave it—they were poor—and I gave the coin, so they were very astonished, yes. But afterwards I stopped giving it to the household and began collecting coins for a siddur. I want to buy a siddur that will contain Chatzos and Tehillim, Ma’amados and Selichos, all kinds of Selichos and everything—a “Kol-Bo”! That it should contain all—all that there is in the world: some techinah, some—some—some thing, also… I began to collect the money for myself in order to buy a siddur. There was a siddur there called “Kol-Bo,” and… so it was, and all—everything was in this siddur. And I had a longing and yearning for such a siddur, yes. But there is—there is no money, and also in Teveria, no—it is impossible to obtain such a siddur, only in Yerushalayim. So Hashem, blessed is He, had mercy on me, and my mother traveled to Yerushalayim for a hachnasas kallah, to marry off some child.

In any case, she traveled to Yerushalayim. And when she traveled, I said to her, “I collected money for a ‘Kol-Bo’ siddur!” And I was very dear to my mother. And she—she gave me a promise that she would buy me a siddur just as I wanted, a “Kol-Bo,” that it should have—that it should have all the finest qualities, yes. I gave her the money, and she kept her word. And she made an effort to deal with some family, from our family, who knew all the great merchants, because there is… such a siddur—not everywhere, not—not obtainable in every place. One needs to know where such a siddur can be found. In any case, she brought me a siddur that was a novelty in Yerushalayim. She came to Teveria with the siddur, and my joy—and I went to the synagogue with this siddur. And everyone envied me: I have—he has a siddur. I wanted to eat the whole siddur. What—what joy I had every time I saw the siddur with me… …[Start from the beginning.] I forgot. [About the three wise men in Teveria.] At the time he drew close—when Rav Tzvi Rosenthal drew close to Rabbainu—then Hashem, blessed is He, arranged that this was the Providence: he left his home to pray vatikin on Friday, and did not—and did not return the whole day. They were already waiting, the whole family—the… his wife and children and father— waiting at every—at every moment until he would come, until he would come. How is it possible? One goes to pray and does not return? Nu, nu… There was a commotion throughout the city: “Rav Tzvi Rosenthal went to pray and… did not return. What these Breslovers do! On Friday, Erev Shabbos, they took Rav Tzvi. He has a wife and small children; suddenly he disappeared. Who knows where he is?” Some said—a few people said: “The Breslovers sent him to Uman, because the main thing for them is Uman.”

Yoy, the others said: “Perhaps to Tzfas, perhaps to Yerushalayim.” In any case they did not know… This—this was known: “Rav Hirsh has disappeared—disappeared; there is—he is not here.” They sent—on Erev Shabbos, which was Friday. They saw—it was close to candlelighting, and he was not there. So they—they took one hero of the heroes of Teveria, who knew how to ride a horse like an airplane. And he traveled to Tzfas; they had family there. Perhaps he—he had gone to Tzfas because there was a dispute at home over Breslov, over Breslov chassidus; so he—he went to Tzfas. So they sent to Tzfas, and he was—he managed to return and report that he had visited everyone—all the family—and Rav Tzvi was not there! Nu, nu, the whole city was in such an uproar—the whole city: “The Breslovers—the Breslovers who took Rav (not understood) from the family and…” He went to pray and is not here. And he… On that Friday, this—this was all (not understood). In any case they lit candles in honor of Shabbos, and Rav Tzvi was not there—not there and not there. In any case the children were weeping, and the wife and the family, his father… “What kind of Shabbos is this? Where is Rav Tzvi?” And his wife and my mother and my wife as well—they went to the house of Rebbe Yisroel and threw stones: “Where is Rav Tzvi? Where is Rav…?” For that Shabbos Rebbe Yisroel had stones. They broke all the vessels; they paid no heed to Shabbos, to desecrating Shabbos. They broke the water jar that held three or four tins of water; they broke and broke. The stones—all the stones in Teveria they threw at the house of Rebbe Yisroel. Nu, at night they were forced to sleep. They made a stop and went to sleep. But early in the morning everyone rose and went… weeping: “Where is Rav Tzvi? What is this? On Friday? He did such {…..} to them that they could die…”

“What is this? Where…?” In any case, they— already on Friday they had gone—they had gone to the Mukhtar. And the Mukhtar sought out such things because he loved money—he worshipped money, yes. So there would be good business for him from this: the families of—of Rav Tzvi, Yisroel Ber, and there would be—and there would be—and there would be a good stew, and there would be money for you. So he said—he said to his wife: “Regarding Breslovers, believe anything. I think they sent him to Uman. He is not in Yerushalayim, he is not in Tzfas; they—they—they sent him to Uman.” But was Uman not at war with Turkey? Nu, this is espionage, this—this… “With them war has no relevance, or… Uman—this—they sent him.” And he made a complaint to the government that we had sent Rav Tzvi to Uman, and that was how his complaint was. Yes, to Uman. So this is a matter—this is a matter of espionage, a very serious matter. So there would be money from it. He would establish that not… In any case, there would be money from all sides—there would be money. On Shabbos morning they went up—they did not come to me—to Rebbe Yisroel. “Where is Rav Tzvi?” I did not know. I got up, went to the mikveh, and prayed at home. I begin to pray, “Baruch SheAmar,” and… The Mukhtar came with soldiers, with police, and I was in the middle of the prayer, after “Baruch SheAmar.” I—he called—called me and said, “Come to prison. Where is Rav Tzvi?” Oy, the episode of Rav Tzvi—this—this is such a beautiful episode, a beautiful spectacle. What is this? When… Such a thing has never been heard in the world: that a householder should go to pray on Friday and not return home, and no one knows where he is? Such a thing—only in Breslov. And the whole city was weeping over the family. Rav Tzvi went to pray and did not—and did not… This can happen only—only in Breslov.

In any case he said to me “that I should go with them to prison.” Nu, in the middle of the prayer. I went with them. Did I have a choice? I went to prison. All my family came to the prison to see where I was. Who—who—who knows what will happen in prison? They will take me as a soldier, or… or they will beat me so that I tell them where he is—where is Rav Tzvi? In any case, my mother and my wife and the family—he—they came to the prison. And they saw me through—through the windows; they saw me. So they said to me: “What—what is happening?” I was in the middle of the prayer and could not spea… In any case, several hours passed. There came… the great official, the governor—the chief governor over the police and everything. He—he came. He was already (not understood); the Mukhtar had already spoken with him about what he had to do. He knew—he already knew that he had a good friend, this Mukhtar. Whatever he said, he did, yes. And then he came. They brought me out of the prison to… (not understood), the great officer, “Yidniral,” “the Yidniral.” Oy, and he said—he—he was—he spoke forcefully; he was the “Yidniral.” He said to me: “Tell me, where—where—where is Rav Tzvi?” What did they do? First they laid—laid me on the floor, and raised my legs upward, like here, on the legs, on this, and they took a rope and tied my legs to this, yes. These were large iro… strong irons, yes. They tied me, and there was one policeman on this side and one policeman on that side, and my legs were up here. And they said to me: “If you tell us where Rav Tzvi is—good! If not, then—then you will die! We will beat you murderous blows!” And my family heard how he was speaking to me, and they—they were afraid that I…

If they beat me, then I would die. Policemen—Arab policemen—they give murderous blows. There was weeping—my mother and my wife and… In sum, they tied me, and I lay with my legs up, and they held the—the sticks, the… yes. And the officer said to me: “Tell me, where—where is Rav Tzvi?” I said: “I think he went to Yerushalayim.” So he said to me: “Know that we will keep watch. If we do not find him, then we will punish you—then you will die. We will beat you until—until—until death. Tell the truth!” So I said: “This—this—this is what I know; I am telling it.” So they let me be, and on Shabbos they sent—they sent men toward Yerushalayim. In any case, on Motzaay—on Motzaay Shabbos… they found him in Afula. And they told Rav Tzvi—the police found him, yes—and said to him: “Know that Yisroel Ber and Rebbe Yisroel are in prison, and they are in great danger. Go—return with us!” He returned with us—with them. He heard that it was dangerous; he returned—he returned with them. They came to Teveria—to Teveria on Motzaay Shabbos, but… nu… …So my family wanted them to release me from prison, so that I could go home. And the law was that at night they do not let any person out if he—if he is in prison. If he is released—if they release him—he must remain until morning. At night there are—there are no releases. But the Mukhtar and this officer—they—they knew how to conduct themselves. And they released me on Motzaay Shabbos at night, yes. But I forgot about the three wealthy men of Teveria, yes. Oy, they—they were already—they were from the new ones, new Zionists. Yes, for them all Yiddishkait and the Torah and… were a joke. But even so, they—they were natives of Eretz Yisroel.

And the greatest among them was—he had a flour mill, and he was important. His family—his father and grandfather—were Karliner Chassidim. So he wore his shtreimel tilted to the side according to the fashion, yes. And he went with his friends, another—another two. He was the elder—not—not—not old, but compared to them he was older than they were. So these three were—they were friends, and they mocked Yiddishkait like the Chacham in the “Sipuray Ma’asiyos,” yes. They went and they—and for them there was lau… laughter: they are going to pray, nu. But Yisroel—one was named Yisroel, Yisroel ben Zalman, Yisroel Zulmines—Zulmines Yisroel. And one—and the other two were both— one owned the biggest pharmacy in Teveria. It was a wonder, even—even in Yerushalayim, such a large pharmacy. And he knew the craft well—a great expert. That was the second one. And the third was Leibl—Leibl, also Aryeh. (Not understood.) He was the biggest timber merchant in Teveria. Three—these three. And these—these three went to the synagogue. But for them it was a kind of spectacle, a kind of joke; that is how they went to the synagogue. They went to the Karlin synagogue. This owner—the owner of the… the one who had the flour mill was named Yisroel Zulmines. He—he was the eldest of them; they treated him with respect. He was a wise man and… yes. They went with him to the synagogue. And this—this was a kind of spectacle: they went to the synagogue. And the house of Rebbe Yisroel was among all the synagogues, yes. And they saw a great commotion—the whole city in an uproar, a great uproar. And also my family and that of—and of Rav Tzvi were at the house of Rebbe Yisroel. And there were shouts and weeping, and they heard—they heard such a thing; they had never heard it before.

“What is going on here? What is going on here?” “Ho! You don’t—don’t—don’t—you don’t know? Yisroel Ber became a Breslov Chassid, and they took Rav Tzvi, and he disappeared. He went on Friday to pray and did not return.” So they—so they did—they hear a thing, such a thing? This—this… In sum, they liked it. They saw the crowd, such a great gathering, and in the middle they were told what had happened, what was happening in Teveria: Yisroel Ber was one of the Breslov Chassidim. “You haven’t heard? {……}” And for them it was a kind of spectacle, a kind of spectacle, yes. So, “Oy, Yisroel Ber (not understood) Breslov?” In any case, they—they went to the door of the house—of Rebbe Yisroel, yes. It was closed; he had closed the door. He was praying Shacharis. He—such a prayer—I did not hear it, but—but I heard that they said it was splitting the heavens, that it was such a prayer, yes. My family—his family— and they were with the Mukhtar, with the police. So they—they—they stood beside Rebbe Yisroel’s door, and Mordechai the Mukhtar also stood with police. They waited for him to finish the prayer; they would take him outside, and outside they could take him. It was forbidden to take him from the house, but from outside it was possible. In any case, they went to Rebbe Yisroel’s door and found the—the Mukhtar with the police. And they heard Rebbe Yisroel’s prayer; fear fell upon them. They had never heard—such a prayer? They had never heard one! Ho… what—what? So they were truly awakened; Yiddishkait was awakened, the Jewish heart, yes. And all of them—Yisroel, this one from the flour mill, and those other two—the two— said to Mordechai, to the Mukhtar, “Get away from here!” So he immediately went. They were his fellows, his circle, so—so… he was afraid of them, yes. They were not simple people. They told him to go, so he went.

And they remained—they remained. They did not go to pray; they did not go to Karlin. They—they—they saw such a spectacle, the whole city in an uproar: “Where is Rebbe Yisroel?” And my family and his family, yes. So they waited until he finished the Shmoneh Esray of—of the Shabbos prayer. And they knocked on the door and spoke with Rebbe Yisroel: “We sent Mordechai away; we—we sent him away. We want to speak with you.” So—so he opened the door and they entered. And they were clever, wise—not… yes. But they were nullified before the prayer they had heard from Rebbe Yisroel. So one asked—they asked him several questions. And he answered first things first and last things last; he answered them all. And they were very astonished; they had never heard such words. They were clever. They asked him: “What is this? Breslov and Karlin and everyone—the religious… they all have sons, and the Breslovers also have a wife and they have sons. What—what? What kind of… what… what…? What difference is there? They—they are under… These marry and have sons, and those marry—marry and have sons. So what? What is the distinction? What—what (not understood), what?” So Rebbe Yisroel said to them: “These marry—they marry for the sake of—for the sake of bodily desire. And they also have children; consequently they also have sons. But the main thing for them is the desire, the… And these tzaddikim—the tzaddikim—they marry because they want children; for this they marry!” They thought this—how can it be… They did not—not know how to answer this. And he gave them a sufficient answer, and they—they—they did not reply. And they were nullified before Rebbe Yisroel, and they loved him. For everything they spoke with him, he answered them everything, and they were nullified.

And they drew close—and they drew close to Rabbainu, yes. And they supported him and… yes. Oy… They did not—the first time in their lives, the three—the three wise men— they—they saw for the first time in their lives such an uproar. So when they heard, they asked: “What is this uproar? What? What is going on?” “Ho, haven’t you heard that Yisroel Ber became Breslov?” “We heard. Nu, so what?” “So what? They took him—Rav Tzvi.” And they told him. They saw such an uproar: “Yisroel Ber became Breslov,” and Rav Tzvi went to pray… On Sunday I was afraid: perhaps the Mukhtar wants money. He will come again and take me to prison. Money—“Where is Rav Tzvi?” Money, only money—money. So—so I saw a place beside the Karlin synagogue, a place—a closed place, a place where one cannot be seen. I was there the whole day beside the synagogue, yes. Perhaps Mordechai will come with the police; I… and they… No one knew who—where—where I was, so he could search. Ho… In any case, I—I was there until Minchah. At Minchah I went up from the place where I was to the synagogue, to pray Minchah, to hear “Kedushah,” and… There came—there came the elder Rav Kahat. Rav Kahat—he—he was a Karliner. And also—and also the father of the wife—of Rav Tzvi Rosenthal’s wife—was also a Karliner, and they were friends. So Rav Kahat went to pray Minchah and heard that the police had taken Mordechai, the Mukhtar, to Istanbul, and that there was a great complaint against him—that he was a spy, that he… yes. So Rav Kahat said: “This is Rebbe Yisroel—Rebbe Yisroel. This is Rebbe Yisroel’s doing. Rebbe Yisroel punished him; he—he gave him a punishment. Hashem gave him a punishment for this—for this Shabbos.

He… they took him, and from then on he disappeared. I did not see him; he had… Teveria never saw him again…