and he replied: "What — what — what is he saying? A loan of half a lira?" (Saba laughs.) But my request — he could not get it out of his heart. I said it with force, with firmness: "I need half a lira! Let him lend me half a lira." When would he ever get it back? Can he give half a lira? He can give a grosh, two groshn, five groshn — but not half a lira. (Saba laughs.) But my words did not leave him… no — he was not able to forget. Yes. (Saba laughs.)

He said: "How is it possible to lend half a lira — half a lira?" But he gave — half a lira — he gave it to me. (Saba laughs.) Yes. He said to me that he would think it over and… Afterwards he saw me in the market and called me over — he said to me: "I will give you half a lira — tomorrow, the day after tomorrow — I will give you half a lira." (Saba laughs.) That was it. Nu — my joy! I already have the journey to Yerushalayim — to travel to Yerushalayim! (Saba laughs.)

Nu. In those days one did not travel directly from Teveria to Yerushalayim — first one had to go to Haifa, and from Haifa to Yerushalayim. Yes. In Haifa there lived — there lived Rav Moshe Klein. He was close to Rabbainu, and all of Haifa loved him — they loved him. He went alone through all of Haifa… He, he took upon himself all the troubles — no, no, no — he did not leave troubles here as everyone does. He was unique in Haifa. Yes. And his milk too was unique in Haifa — they felt a taste of Gan Eden in the milk of — in Moshe's milk. (Saba laughs.)

Oy. I came to Rav Moshe Klein, and his wife did not want guests. She said to him: "Guests? Take them to a hotel! Yes — I cannot, I have no strength and I have no… I don't want guests." So it was like this — he went with me to a house, a hotel, and there I had… He gave me a bed. Yes. And something to eat and somewhere to sleep. Afterwards I went with him — he went at midnight. After midnight he went to the village, to be present at the milking — so that there should be no chalav akum, no gentile's milk. Nu. He had several — several canisters of milk. He took one and I took one, and we went together — the two of us — I with one canister and he with one canister, and we spoke of Rabbainu from house to house.

Oy. Yes. One sees that it is hard for a person — hard to do a mitzvah. Yes. And if he had given me money — so that I would have bread, so that I could send home something — he had enough money, he had money. He gave me — his gift to me was the hotel and the food and half a lira. That he gave me. And half a lira. Oy. Nu. Oy, oy, oy, oy. Yes.

I saw a Breslov Chassid from Poland — from Poland. Yes. Leverman — the father of Leverman. {Rav Volv} Leverman. He had a candle factory and he was wealthy and had houses. And he averted his eyes from me. Yes. He gave me a place to sleep, he gave me food to eat — but money he did not give. Yes. He was a miser with money. Yes.

And I saw that one who does not have the merit — they do not allow him to fulfill the mitzvah of tzedakah. Yes. I saw: if he had given me several liros to bring home — to me, so that I would have bread to eat — what — what was I looking for? Was I looking for something extra? Bread for the children, clothing for the children. Nu — if he had given me — he had money, he would have earned (zechiyos). Yes. And he did not give me — he did not give. He gave me… His giving was ten groshn. Yes. That he gave me. Yes.

Nu. I did not think about this, I did not — did not take it to heart, I had no resentment in my heart. This is how the Holy One Blessed Be He conducts the world. What — what — yes. One who does not have the merit — they give him the money: "No — don't you give to Yisroel Ber — only ten groshn." (Saba laughs.) Oy, oy, oy, oy, oy. He should have given — he should have given me generously — tzedakah and money. For what did he serve? For what? For whom? For what? Yes. But no wisdom. Yes. What he — he earns money and has money — he has no dominion over himself, over the money. No. Yes. (Saba laughs.)

Yes. Like this he is. Oy, oy, oy. And I — even so — I did not look at this, I did not look at the fact that he… however much he is Breslov, Breslov — however much, however much he is Breslov, he… Yes. In any case, however he is — he has no false beliefs anymore. In any case (Saba laughs) — he does not believe in Admo"rim. Yes. And in this I was together with him — very close. Yes. He is like me — he is distant — he does not, does not believe in false beliefs, in Admo"rim. But this is not enough. (Problem with the tape.)

They had no dress and no shoes for their feet, and I did not pay for them the money for — for the tuition of the school. And they were expelled every — every month they were expelled from the classroom, that they should not come until they bring money. Yes. (Saba laughs.) No bread and no shoes and no dress and no bread. And also they were expelled from the classroom. (Saba laughs.) Nu — can one imagine this sorrow? Such sorrow?

And blessed be Hashem — I did not submit myself to the falsehood. Yes. Blessed be Hashem — I was strong. I laughed at all of them. (Saba laughs.) Who can imagine the sorrow — the sorrow and the pain and the shame of one who has small children, and they have no bread to eat, and no clothing, and no school and nothing, and nothing…? Who can imagine such sorrow? Yes. (Saba laughs.)

Yes. Like this. I did not think about this — about Leverman, about Levi Yitzchak — why does he avert his eyes? Why? He should see — he should make the effort to gather tzedakah, to give… They knew that I — that I am unique in the world, I… Yes. And nothing — because they have no merit. Yes. And also I needed to pass through such a path (Saba laughs) — to see, to see what — what will become of you. (Saba laughs.) Who can imagine? Now I tell it and I — and I laugh and I am in joy. But then — who could have imagined my heart — the sorrow and the brokenheartedness that I had? I have small children — no school and no bread and no clothing and no shoes. Who can understand this? What sorrow is this? Yes. And I was a strong warrior and I did not submit myself — nothing, nothing — as if nothing at all. Yes. (Saba laughs.)

The children — until today they are ashamed. When they hear — when such a thing is told — they immediately become ashamed. And then they were ashamed one before the other: what kind of father was this — they have no bread to eat and no dress, they have nothing… (Saba laughs.)

Yes. And like this I went to Sha'aray Chessed — to speak of Rabbainu — with this one and with that one, and with this one. Yes. And not… If I had said that I was suffering poverty — nu — Yerushalayim has many poor, what — what is there? Yes. (Saba laughs.) Oy — what am I… This what… Who can tell it? Who can imagine such things? I could have become a madman, or — or a thief, or — or… Such a thing? Can the mind imagine such a thing? There is a child, and he has no, and he has no clothing and no bread and… and no school. (Saba laughs.) Oy — the Master of the World knows the truth — that we — that I… However much I tell you — it still does not reach how it was. (Saba laughs.) Ah — and they remember, they…

and he would despise me — "What kind of question are you asking?" So I… But I — for the sake of… Because I wanted to have a connection with Rebbe Yisroel (Kardonner) — I strengthened myself with all my might and said — and said: "Whatever will be — even if he strikes me and despises me — I will ask the father, whatever will be." So I asked, and the father answered: "Yes, yes — there remains a portion, there remains a little cooked food from the meal. So give it to him, just bread — he, he will eat bread alone? Then give it to him."

So already I saw that this is Divine Providence from the Holy One Blessed Be He — beyond nature — that I should have a connection with this holy tzaddik. And so it was. They made the night — they said Birkas HaMazon and Krias Shema, and they lay down to sleep. And I — and Rebbe Yisroel — he sat on — on — on a step, one step of the house. And I gave him bread to eat. Yes. And he performed the washing of hands and made the blessing of "HaMotzi…" And when I heard the blessing from him — "al netillas yadayim" and "HaMotzi…" — I saw that this is right — this is a hidden tzaddik. Because such a blessing I had never heard — had never heard. I grew up among Chassidim and they — and they learn Torah and are yiray Hashem. But such a blessing I had not heard. And also a face — such a form as Rebbe Yisroel had — I had not seen, had not seen.

So, so I gave him — what had remained of our meal — so that he should eat, eat this. So he said to me: "I eat nothing at all — only bread and tea." But we had no tea, and we had no machine — no kerosene stove. Only — there was… Only the wealthy had a kerosene stove. But the poor used tin primus stoves, and this is a craft — one needs to know how, how to make fire. And I did everything and… Until I succeeded in lighting the fire and made tea. And each time I came into the house and spoke to Rebbe Yisroel — I did not know that he was a Breslover. I knew only that he was a hidden tzaddik. (Saba laughs.)

So I said to him softly, in secret, in his ear — I said to him: "Rebbe Yisroel… I did not know — 'You should know that you have come to Teveria for my sake. I am such and such — I want very much to serve Hashem in truth, and there have been upon me, and there are upon me, very hard battles. And I am searching — all my life I am searching for a place where they will guide me and illuminate — illuminate within me the light — the light of Hashem — so that I merit to serve Hashem in truth. So you have come to Teveria for my sake, and I beg you — do not leave me!'"

And I — I saw that he was very moved. Because right when he descended from the donkey — the Holy One Blessed Be He had brought him to me and he heard such words. (Saba laughs.) He, he, he had needed to travel earlier. But as long as he had no clear sign that he needed to travel to Teveria — he did not want to move from Meron. (Saba laughs.) Nu. Oy voy.

[Rebbe Yisroel — I must rest.] [More — two more minutes. You said that I should remind you — about the household members at the age of thirteen who quarreled with you — the household members who quarreled with you at age thirteen, at age thirteen.] Ah — that you should remind me. Yes, yes, yes, yes.

This was a very hard battle for me with — with — with all — with all the city — with all — with all the family. They all wanted — my father — [that you should learn a trade] — yes. And I said: "I will not learn any trade — only Torah and yiras Shamayim!" This — I did not want it in any way. And there was a hard battle, because there was great pity. They said: "You will… your father cannot work — he is blind and poor — and you will provide for the household. You are a child after your bar mitzvah — you can learn, learn a trade, and earn bread for the house. [And you won't be a rabbi.] And you won't be a rabbi — you don't have the talents." (Saba laughs.)

[Yes — you won't be a great rabbi, you don't have the talents.] And I did not want to listen. And everyone — all the city had great, great pity. "You have become bar mitzvah — you need to do — to learn a trade, to provide for the household." Nu. [So what did you say to them?] I said to them: "I will not learn any trade — in no way in the world." So… yes.

I told this to Rebbe Yisroel. So he was pleased — I saw he was very pleased by this. The Holy One Blessed Be He had prepared for him such a soul — one who wants only Torah, always. [So they said to you: "What will be with the wife? With the wife too you won't learn?"] Yes, yes — and the wife too. So I said: "Give me such a wife — a wife who will also eat bread — bread." (Saba laughs.) [You said: let Hashem give such a wife who will also eat bread and water.] Yes. (Saba laughs.)

This — this… I have not yet told it as — as — as… exactly as it was. Because it is impossible to describe the battle that I had in this. [With whom?] And Rebbe Yisroel heard this — I told him — [Ah — the battle with the parents] — the battle with the parents, the family, and all — and all the friends, and all the city. They all said that I needed to learn a trade — I was not capable of being — of being a Rosh Yeshivah or a rabbi. (Saba laughs.) [Admo"r, Admo"r.] Admo"r. Oy, oy, oy. Hey — from this one sees the compassion of the Creator Blessed Be He.

Seventy years ago — when Breslov was truly nothing, nothing, nothing — nothing — it is impossible to describe the magnitude of the humiliation and the… that was upon Breslov. And I stood against lions — against great scholars of Torah and of yira, well-known — and they all said: "Breslov — no." Rav Motl — Rav Motl (of Slonim)… This was great miracles. All the great ones in Teveria and the friends — I prayed with them, and Teveria is a small city and well-acquainted — I knew everyone, and they all said: "Breslov — he is Breslov — oy voy, oy voy." [He is being warned.] Yes. And I — the Holy One Blessed Be He — I merited through the kindness of the Holy One Blessed Be He to taste — to taste the flavor of Breslov, the taste of hisbodedus, the taste of the outpouring of the soul. (Saba laughs.)

Yes. And also I saw with my own eyes Rebbe Yisroel — I saw what Breslov is. [What did you see? What?] I saw his prayer, and his avodah, and his Shabbos, his holy words, his desires — how he, what he suffered for me. What did he suffer? He came to Teveria and found Yisroel Ber — so he already forgot that he had a family in Tzfas, and that there was Meron. He threw everything aside — everything — only Yisroel Ber. (Saba laughs.) Oy voy — what — what — what… What happened — such an act — this, this is particular, this is a particular wonder-thing, there is nothing — nothing like it. [Tell it, tell it.] Oy — nu — it is impossible to tell everything…

that he had eaten. Afterwards we went, we went — he (Rebbe Yisroel Kardonner) said to me he wants to go to a synagogue. Nu — I went with him to a synagogue. And along the way I spoke with him and told him my situation — the… yes. And he heard everything. And I wanted to say a verbal confession before him — vidduy devarim — and he did not want to hear it. He said it is forbidden — that it is forbidden. He — this… So I went to the synagogue of Chassidim of… [What is forbidden — what words are forbidden?] Ah? [What kind of words are forbidden?] [A verbal confession — vidduy devarim.] [Ah — vidduy devarim.] A verbal confession. [You wanted to confess before him verbally and he would not allow it.] No — only in general, not in… not in detail. [I understand.] Yes. [In general.] In general. So…

And I spoke with him and wept before him, because I wanted so much — and I felt that there was with him healing, healings for me — and that he should not abandon me, that he should not, that he should not leave me, that he should not go to Meron. (Saba laughs.) So I wept before him and said — I pleaded with him — that he should not leave me. And he heard such a thing. And I saw that he was [moved] — so moved — because he saw eye to eye [the Providence of Hashem] that the Providence of the Holy One Blessed Be He had brought him to Teveria. He came to Teveria straight from the donkey — the moment he descended from it — straight to my house. And afterwards I went with him to a synagogue.

And all the synagogues were locked, and I did not know where the key was — only one synagogue that was in Teveria from the students of the Baal Shem Tov, and from the grandfather of the holy Rabbainu — Rav Nachman Horodenker — Rav Klisker — all these holy tzaddikim built a synagogue at the edge of the lake (yam) so that they could immerse in the lake and pray during the day whenever they wished — so that it would be close to the lake. They built the synagogue close to the lake. And the lake — in winter when there were many rains — the lake rose and entered this synagogue until — until half the tables. The lake was in the synagogue, and one could not pray there. And this synagogue was open — the tables and chairs stood in the water until it went down — until… until the month of Nissan — until the waters went down.

So we entered this synagogue, and we climbed up onto a table and studied Torah — Torah Zayin from Part Two: "For He leads them with compassion…" And he studied with me this Torah all night long. And I merited — all my life I had not felt the taste of Torah, the taste of yiras Shamayim, the taste of… as in that night when he studied with me this Torah — this holy Torah — "For He leads them with compassion." Hey — we were in the synagogue with the lake within it all night long, and I did not feel that… you need to sleep. [He had candles also in his bag.] And he also had candles and matches — which in those days was something precious. And he was wealthy — and he had candles. He lit a candle and studied with me from Likutay Moharan until close to the light of dawn.

Until I heard the sound of weeping of my mother — she was weeping greatly, as one after a death. She wept greatly: "Oy — my son, my son — my son Yisroel Ber — my son Yisroel Ber is lost, is lost!" (Saba laughs.) And I heard it. So I said to Rebbe Yisroel: "Oy voy — it is already after midnight, after… and my mother is searching, is looking for me." So I went out of the synagogue and went to my mother — I walked toward her voice. I reached her, and I said to her: "What is all this weeping?" So she said: "What have you done? Where — where did you go the whole night? In any case — you know now, all… they have to throw out all the dough — all the challah and all the bread." (Saba laughs.)

Nu. And from that night there arose a commotion in Teveria — that night, that night (Saba laughs). [That night — different from all nights.] Yisroel Ber became a Breslover. Yes. [Bar mitzvah.] She told — the neighbors from the surroundings came in the morning: "What was all the weeping? What? What? What was this?" [What happened here?] What happened? So she told: "A man bought bread and went with him [all night] and disappeared — and did not return all night." And… They did not know who this was.

But in the morning when I went to the synagogue and Rebbe Yisroel was in the synagogue and I spoke with him — then they said: "Nu — already — what was made has been made on that night." (Saba laughs.) That night. Oy, oy, oy, oy, oy. Afterwards on Sunday we went to the yeshivah — he studied with me, and we studied the books of Rabbainu, and Gemara and Shulchan Aruch — poskim. Nu. And they saw — oy voy: "Yisroel Ber — Yisroel Ber has become a Breslover. Rebbe Yisroel Kardonner is…" Nu.

A machlokes rose against me — a great battle. [Tell everything.] And the father and the mother and the close family and all — and all the yeshivah and everyone. [What did they do?] Ah? [What did they do? What was the machlokes? What? They spoke? They shouted? They hit? What did they do?]

Hey — they… It is impossible to describe [describe it] and to imagine. They had — they had great pity. Only — only this they said: "Oy voy — Yisroel Ber has become a Breslover — Yisroel Ber has become a Breslover." Nu. They went from the yeshivah — they went to the parents, to the father and the mother, and told them: "Do you know? Yisroel Ber has become a Breslover." So the father said: "I am not worried — I know my son. He honors his father and mother. He — even if it appeared that I would send him into fire — there is, there is no equal to him. You know him — he is yiras Shamayim, he fulfills the mitzvah of honoring his father. So I — he will come from the yeshivah, and I will tell him that I don't want — and he will certainly not be a Breslover. I have no concern."

So they — they trembled: "You don't know what Breslov is? He won't listen to you — you need a heavy battle." So he said: "I am not worried — I know my son." I came from the yeshivah — so the father said to me: "I heard from everyone in the yeshivah — Rav Motl (of Slonim) and everyone came and said that you have become a Breslover. Know, my son — have mercy on me. I do not want you to be a Breslover. I want you to be whatever Chassid you want — but not — only not Breslov!"

So I said to him: "Father — I — I — you know, you recognize me. I — I honor my father and mother. In this — I will not listen to you." Ah. So he said: "You are right — they told me I do not know what Breslov is." This was the first time in my life — the first time — that I heard that I — that… I did not — I did not want to fulfill his words. Oy, oy voy, oy — what happened then? What happened? What happened? Now one can tell — the rabbi, the rabbi — and Rav Motl (of Slonim) and all — and all — and all the Chassidim — all the… All the city was already boiling…

[Minchah.] Ah — Minchah — Minchah — yoy, yoy…

I told you that Rav Motl (of Slonim) was a great scholar — and he had good character traits. He was humble and he studied by day and by night. And he was a wondrous man — a truly wonderful person. And he — even though I was a child, I had a weak mind — but he loved me. Me — my simplicity — and my good desires. He drew me close and elevated me: "He raises the poor from the dust…"

It is a wonderful and awesome story — whoever truly pays attention. And so I said: "It is fitting and very important to tell and record everything that has passed over me from the day I came to my senses." Because this is a continuation — from when I came to my senses until — until I merited to draw close to the holy Rabbainu — this is one continuous matter — one act. [One — one — this is one thing.] The act began from then. [From childhood.]

But this — this continues and this is a continuation now. The Holy One Blessed Be He favored me and gave me such a soul — that from the day I came to my senses, when I was still a small child — I had, I had — my heart burning greatly for the service of Hashem, and to be… to merit yiras Shamayim and emunah. And that I should merit — in all — the main thing of my yearning and my will was to purify myself from vanities, from desires — from all the desires of this world — only to serve Hashem.

But certainly when I was a small child I knew nothing at all. But the soul — the soul yearned greatly. Even though I knew nothing at all — but my desires and my heart — there was, there was burning in my heart — only for the service of Hashem. And not to engage in labor — in any trade or work. My father was poor all his days, and afterwards he became blind. And I was still a child — a small child. Oy voy — Master of the World. And I had yearnings to afflict my soul, to fast — from the time I was still young. [At what age?] Ah? [At what age?] At what age — seven, eight years. [You would fast at age seven, eight?] Ah? [You would fast at age seven, eight?]

No — only Erev Rosh Chodesh, or — or Elul, in the time — in the time of the Days of Repentance — Elul. And for example Erev Rosh Chodesh — I wanted to fast. And my mother was a very devoted mother — and it was impossible — she had great sorrow: "What is this with you? You are still a small child — what? You are fasting?" So I could not {bear to} listen to her — and I fasted every Rosh Chodesh half the day. But — but in the month of Elul? Erev Rosh Chodesh Elul? The whole day!

And I caused great sorrow to my mother over this. In any case more passed over me… It is known that for everything holy, the Ba'al Davar — the Adversary — strengthens itself. I had a very great strengthening of the desires of this world from one side, and from the other side I was yiras Shamayim and my life was bitter to me — no — there was — what… I felt a great pleasantness. Oy, oy voy. So I searched for God-fearing people — people of truth — among the Chassidim among whom I grew up. Because then I knew nothing of the holy Rabbainu.

So I searched among… Even though I belonged to the chassidus of Karlin — but I thought: perhaps I will find in Slonim, perhaps I will find in some other place. So I am connected to… I am connected only to the Holy One Blessed Be He — wherever I feel, wherever I see that it works upon me, that the light of Hashem pervades me. Yoy.

[Rebbe Yisroel — there is a greeting for you.] Ah. [From Rebbe Nachman from Russia.] Ah — Nachman? How? [I met him at…] [Continue, Rebbe Yisroel, yes.]

Nu. And I searched among the Chassidim of Karlin and of Slonim and other people. For example — there was, there was in Teveria one man well-known until this very day — that he was — his name was Rav, Rav Hirsh — Rav Tzvi Litvak Rosenthal. Rav Tzvi Litvak Rosenthal. [Rav Tzvi Litvak Rosenthal.] And he was yiras Shamayim and he studied many mussar books. And "Raishis…" — and the book "Raishis Chochmah" he knew by heart. And he studied it constantly — he studied the book "Raishis Chochmah" with great diligence. And I was searching for a place to guide me — to illuminate within it — to illuminate within me yiras Shamayim and emunah. So I attached myself to him. And he became a teacher for me without pay. He studied with me "Raishis Chochmah" and spoke with me like this by heart. And there was a great bond between us.

[But you weren't doing hisbodedus then? You didn't know about hisbodedus and these things?] I saw in the book "Raishis Chochmah" and in other mussar books about the great — about the greatness of the power of prayer. Certainly I prayed to the Holy One Blessed Be He. But the matter of hisbodedus I did not know about — I only knew that prayer is a very great thing. So I said a lot of Tehillim. And my prayer — every day the three daily prayers — I prayed with great kavana and with deveykus and yiras Shamayim.

In Teveria there was a man from the Chassidim of… no… one man who was an upright person and loved God-fearing Jews. So he saw my prayer — that it was different from all the other children. He saw that I pray with kavana, and with deveykus, and with truth — with simplicity. So I found favor in his eyes. [What was he called?] Rav Yaakov Kasir. [Rav Yaakov Kasir.] Yaakov Kasir — that was the family name: Kasir. He was a great miser — but to me he gave every time — almost every day — he gave me a coin, a coin. And in those days this was an important, an important coin. And he gave it to me in the middle of the prayer — while I was praying he brought it to me, gave it to me in secret — so that people should not notice that he gave it to me.

So I was a poor child, and I had a will — a strong will — that I should have a siddur that would have in it Chatzos and Tehillim and Ma'amados and all — and all the other prayers. There is such a siddur. But such a siddur cost — cost a lot of money. And I had no money. So I took these coins — that this man gave me — he gave me each time — and I collected them. And I did not give them to my father. And I bought with them a book — a siddur that has all kinds of prayers in the world: Chatzos and Tehillim and Ma'amados and all… and many prayers. And this was for me like great wealth — this siddur was important to me.

In any case — I will shorten until… No. [Anything that takes a year — I don't mind — it doesn't burn anyone — if one does it one must do the work perfectly.] Yes. Nu. I — I will begin to tell — [No — don't continue — no — it doesn't burn anyone — this is not a race — there is time.] Nu — this is already — already included in these words — almost everything is included. [Not yet.]

I had strong desires and I had heavy battles and I searched for a place of salvation — but not… [And after you bought that siddur? Did you do Chatzos?] After I bought the siddur? Not every night. But I had strong desires to rise at Chatzos at midnight and call out Tehillim. Sometimes I rose. But I remember that in Teveria the air was very hot — and all… and the heat was so intense during the day that at night it was also very hot — because the stones had heated up from the sun. And there was great heat. And all the city slept on the rooftops — on the roof. And I too — also. But I rose several hours before — before the light of dawn — and I descended from the roof into the house. And our house had no windows — no, no… it was like a cave. And I descended from the roof…