when you opened the book — and it was written there exactly in connection with the President — yes? Ah? Yes — he opened it. I remember it — that he said that he opened it and he said that…

I think Yitzchak [Nu] has the photograph of me and of Shazar of Slonim. [With the signature?] With the signature. Yes. [So I don't know of that one.] Yes, yes — it is with him. [I don't have it — I have what you gave me. I sent you the photograph to America. Who came to take it from me? And they took it — and there too there was a signature and it is gone. And I had two letters from my father — three original letters — he brought them to me and he took them from me. And the letter that he wrote about my mother — this touches my heart so deeply — you cannot imagine it. He wrote — when my mother passed away, he wrote to Shazar a letter.]

Now we are going. [But the original letter was with me.] We want to distribute the book "Av'i HaNachal." [But where will you get the letters? Yes.] The letters. [First of all the letters that already exist.] [Yes, good.] [After that we will add what it is possible to obtain.] [There is — there is in "Av'i HaNachal" perhaps a little change there — but this is the letter that my father wrote when my mother passed away — how broken and crushed he is — he writes letters to Shazar. So I met with Shazar afterwards — and also because he was sick and they would bring him to the hospital from time to time for treatment. So he said to me: "He is going to print the book." He says: "But such a letter — even one of the greatest writers — that he read books in his lifetime" — he says — "but such a letter he did not read" — what he read about my mother, that he wrote to him. This is truly… Not that this broke my father — this broke his heart, he says. The style of his writing — that it is truly beautiful. He says — (not understood) — he would see him, he would embrace him — embrace him. Then he kissed him on the hand.]

[Saba — Saba — you told me — that President Shazar once — you were — you were in his office at the President's Residence. He said that this chair is not for him — the chair of the President — that he is not worthy. You are worthy of the President's chair — that he said: "I am not worthy." You will sit on his chair — yes?] (Saba laughs.) [I will tell you simply — the investigators had to go upstairs…] [Alright — we will take — we will take Tziporah back to the building — she wants to return. Alright?] Good, good, good. (Saba laughs.)

[Saba and the friends sing: Na Nach Nachma Nachman MayUman. (Saba laughs.)] Do you remember this niggun? (Saba laughs.) [Ho, ho — my father, my father…] All night — this niggun. [My father, my father — by us they sing this niggun.] Ah? [On Friday night.] Nu. [We sing this niggun.] Yes? [Yes.] Every Shabbos? (Saba laughs.) [Uri, Uri sings everything — we sing "Asadder LiSe'udatah" on Shabbos, and your "Aishes Chayil."] Yes? [Yes.] (Saba laughs.) [By us at home they love your melodies. Uri — all the melodies. Uri is a Breslover Chassid.] Yes? (Saba laughs.) [He loves so much — and in his room there are also your books.] There are? [Your books.] My books. [Yes — he reads much. And Shmuel calls him: "Where is the Breslover?"] Yoy — what does he read? [He calls him: "Breslover."] Whom? Uri? [Shmuel calls Uri.] Uri. (Saba laughs.) [When he comes home there is a recording of the Breslover Chassid who sings the melodies — so he listens all the time to the melody. There is — you know that.] Yes, yes, yes.

But if… [My father — if something comes up, I am coming to you with Hashem's help. But blessed be Hashem — everything is already now fine.] [Shalom, Saba.] Shalom, shalom. [How are you?] Blessed be Hashem. [Saba.] Yoy.

[We arrived three hours after this — the thing happened.] Yes. [Yes — it happened at six-thirty in the morning — we were already there at nine-thirty. This was great personal Providence. We took Shmuel to the university.] But — but now they are certain that their child they… [No — they are not letting anyone into the building.] They are not letting anyone in. [Not yet.] Nu — let it be finished. [So I said to Tziporah —] What? [I said to Tziporah — that I can live at Reuven's — and come in all the time.] Yes. [I don't need to be here — I can be at Reuven's and come to visit.] Yes. [Until it… yes.] Yes, yes, yes. [Yes — she is here.] Is there room here? [There is a lot of room here.] Until — until they fix it. [Yes — I can be at Reuven's. His wife said to me — whenever I want I can be at her place.] You see — as if… You? [Yes.] There is room for you and for them. [But if they want privacy — to be a family — I can be at Reuven's and come to visit when you need me. No problem.] (Saba laughs.) Where is she? [In the bathroom.] Ah, oy, oy voy, oy.

[Saba and the friends sing: Na Nach Nachma Nachman MayUman. (Saba laughs.)]

Because when one sees such wonders — such stories — such conversations — they, they feel that they are donkeys. Yes. (Saba laughs.) That the main salvation is Rebbe Nachman — such stories as have never been in the world. And there is not — there is not — no — such {there is none} — such stories (Saba laughs) as "Ba'al Tfilah" — and "Seven" — and "The Seven Beggars" — what? And all — and every story and every tale — this — this is every word — it is, it is, it is a new Kabbalah that has not yet been revealed in the world. Secrets of the Torah such as have never yet been in the world. And all — all of this is for us! We are such sick people — we need such new remedies — that we — that (Saba laughs)… that only Rabbainu.

In any case we must strengthen ourselves — not to fall — and to be renewed and to strengthen ourselves and to study the books of Rabbainu always. Not for the sake of broad knowledge — only for the sake of serving Hashem through this. Yes. Every Torah — from every story — from every conversation of Rabbainu — this, this is the root of all Torah. Yes. This is not we who say it — the holy Rabbainu revealed this. And if he said it — then "Halachah k'Rav Nachman, v'halachah k'Rav Nachman, v'halachah k'Nachmani!" (Saba laughs.) He — he said it — he revealed this. Yes. He knew that we have no place at all that can help us — only — only he himself. (Saba laughs.)

The Rebbe — the Rebbe is truth — "R'osh B'nay Y'israel" — the Master of our house — the Master of the house of the world — of all the world. And he brought down and revealed in the world such wisdom as has not yet been revealed in the world: "You made all of them with wisdom." Oy — such wisdom as has not yet been in the world — such holy wisdom — such supreme holiness — has not yet been revealed in the world. Rabbainu — and the holy Ari says that the Mashiach will be greater than Moshe Rabbainu and than all the tzaddikim. Have you seen this? [No.] Yes, yes — this is in the writings — in the "Kisvay HaAri HaKodosh." Yes. (Saba laughs.)

We must give our souls to emerge from sins. The main thing is the suffering and the main thing is the sorrow and… This — there is, there is no suffering greater than sin. This does not belong to Israel — only to the nations. Sins — desires — this is only for the nations. We — "Who has chosen us from all peoples." (Saba laughs.) And we… Now is the time — the time of the nearness of the redemption. Yes. So… And one sees — one sees how the world is so sunk in desires. And Rabbainu writes the opposite — and they all — all the world — are drawing themselves to the holy Rabbainu. All the secular ones and all — all… "Rebbe Nachman, Rebbe Nachman, Rebbe Nachman." Yes. (Saba laughs.) They should have fled — [What?] they should have distanced themselves. What — what is this? He says that the main thing is money — this is nothing; honor — this is nothing. Only to serve Hashem? (Saba laughs.) They all should have distanced themselves — fled. Yes. And they all esteem him and love him — he… And they say: "Only Rebbe Nachman!" (Saba laughs.)

[So say the secular ones?] Ah? [So say the secular ones?] Yes! This is a known and publicized thing. Yes. The whole world, all… they say one needs to — needs to investigate the stories — to see what this is. What? Such stories as have never been in the world. And also the Torah teachings and the conversations of Rabbainu — these are wondrous matters — wondrous matters as have never yet been revealed in the world. And all of it is for us — for the sake of us needing to leave the prison — from… We must — we are sunk {in that which we are sunk} — and we need to emerge from all this. Yes. Nothing — nothing at all can help us — only Rabbainu Rebbe Nachman. (Saba laughs.) Every word and word that he revealed — it is all our hope and all our vitality and all the vitality of all the world. (Saba laughs.)

Oy voy — if we would merit — we could be — to be renewed and to be human beings — not as the world today. This is not a world — this is not human beings. This is a kind of animals walking on — on two feet. The main wisdom is — is the Torah and the true tzaddik. Not as we think. If we learn — one can learn — there is in the Torah two — two potions: a potion — a potion of life — and a potion of death. One can learn — to become a great scholar — and to learn the opposite. Yes. Without… yes. Without the tzaddik. (Saba laughs.)

Yes. What this is — this is truly so. Nu, nu — a time will come. Yes. Every time that the holy Rabbainu becomes more publicized in the world — this is the approach of the redemption! There is in the "Sefer HaMidos" — Rabbainu says: "The coming of Mashiach depends on drawing close to the tzaddikim!" On drawing close to tzaddikim. Who are the tzaddikim? The holy Rabbainu and his people! Yes. That is it. (Saba laughs.) Oy — what is this? Oy, oy, oy. In any case we must completely nullify our opinion before Rabbainu — before the holy Rabbainu — before the Torah. Yes. And to give our souls to fulfill the Torah and to bring oneself into Torah and to bring in emunah. Yes. Not — not to look at the world — at… The whole world today is — is such a world that… A world of madmen — of wicked people — of… Such a world. But there is already a remedy that can help — that can bring one out. Yes. So the cure and the salvation is only Rabbainu — "R'osh B'nay Y'israel" — the RaBI — Rabbainu — he is the Rebbe of all Israel. "R'osh B'nay Y'israel" — the initials spell RaBI. Yes, yes.

What is a Rebbe? He teaches — as if the child — if, if the child — he informs him what is a patach and what is a kamatz and what is "Beraishis" and what is "Gemara." He, he, he, he opens him and instills in him a spirit — a new soul. (Saba laughs.)

[One of the friends makes the blessing "shehakol nihyeh bidvaro."] Amen. When did you arrive? Today? [Sunday.] Ah? [On Sunday night.] Today? [Sunday night.] Yesterday. Ah — we must be warriors — warriors of the battle — to overcome everything — everything… Not to look at the whole world. Only what — only what we merit to feel in our hearts — some word of Rabbainu. Nu. Yoy. Do you have a lamp? [There is a bulb — but it is not…] Ah. [I will make another one.] Ah — perhaps you will call the neighbor? [Yes — he is not at home.] Ah? [He is not at home — I went.] He is not at home. [He will come later — his wife will tell him.]

Ah, oy, oy voy. The main thing — we must nullify our wisdom and our da'as and our intellect — to nullify completely. The holy Rabbainu said: "He is the root and the main thing of Torah — of emunah — of all our vitality. This is it — and this will be." (Saba laughs.) We — I remember that there was a prohibition to study in Breslov books. (Saba laughs.) They were afraid to touch a Breslov book. I saw this. Yes. And blessed be Hashem — today one can study everywhere. (Saba laughs.) This — this is signs of the redemption. (Saba laughs.)

[I wanted to ask — one who studies Torah all day — one who studies Torah all day — how many hours does one need to study Rabbainu? Are there hours — or is there a quota…] One who searches for truth — the Holy One Blessed Be He illuminates for him all that he needs — that he should do everything he needs. Yes. (Saba laughs.) I saw that there is such heroism in the world — that I sat in the yeshivah and studied in the yeshivah the books of Breslov — Likutay Moharan, Likutay Halachos and Likutay Tfilos and Tehillim. And I saw there was no fear. I was alone — and they all… Everyone was opposed and persecuting. And I had such heroism as there is not in the world. They were very astonished — how I hold my ground.

And also — if a person searches for truth — then he merits. The Holy One Blessed Be He opens his eyes and he sees truth and knows how to conduct himself — how… what to do — how to repair everything — and how to return to the Holy One Blessed Be He and to Torah, to emunah, to truth. This… The whole world goes — they run (Saba laughs) and they go — they bustle about. But this is not — not human beings. A human being has hands and feet and a mouth — yes — everything. And this is a kind — a kind of animals like these. Yes. So says the holy Rabbainu (Saba laughs) in the Torah "Ki merachamam yenahalem." (Saba laughs.) The Gemara says: "A person does not transgress unless a spirit of foolishness has entered him." A spirit of foolishness — this is the opposite of wisdom and the opposite of da'as. (Saba laughs.) From where do sins come? The holy Rabbainu says: "So this does not belong to us — only to the nations." So how can we, Heaven forfend, fall into sins and do sins? This does not belong to us — this is not ours. Yes. (Saba laughs.) This is a lack of da'as. Yes.

They — they will not be able to have a new heart. Have you seen {not understood}? Oy, oy, oy voy. I — I want and I understand that I must always give thanks and praise to Hashem Who did a miracle for me — one individual alone against the whole world. Yes. The father and the mother and the family and the whole city and all — and all the world. (Saba laughs.)

How I was in such humiliation and disgrace — that if you had been there then — it would have been hard for you — how I — how I exist in the world? How am I alive? (Saba laughs.) It is impossible to describe — impossible — there are, there are no words to speak and to describe what, what I suffered. And blessed be Hashem — I see now that this is good — this is very good. I long and I say: "If only I had suffered more." (Saba laughs.) But now I — if I pay millions — it's gone — the time has passed. (Saba laughs.)

Oy voy — honor and pride and money — this, this, this darkens the eyes of the poor and they… and they fall. Yes. But one who searches for truth — ho — he is not afraid of anything — of anything at all. He has no fear at all. He… (Saba laughs.)

[One who wants to draw close to Rabbainu — one who wants to draw close to Rabbainu — what book…?] What? [He wants to draw close to Rabbainu — what to study?] [Which book especially at the beginning?] Only — not to do evil. Only to do everything the will of the Holy One Blessed Be He. Then everything one studies — whatever books one studies — the holy Rabbainu illuminates everything. And one finds in every word of Torah what one needs — how to live and how to repair and how to draw close to the Holy One Blessed Be He. (Saba laughs.) "Rachmana liba ba'ay" — the main thing is the heart. The holy Rabbainu said: "Give Me your hearts — and I will lead you on a new path." (Saba laughs.) Your hearts — the heart. Oy voy — what is this? What? Where are we? There is — there is in the world — there is… there is in the world such a light — that it is all our vitality and our hope. And we must give our souls — not to abandon this — to bring it into our hearts. And not to look at the whole world. Yes. (Saba laughs.)

Who is the world? The holy Rabbainu — the Holy One Blessed Be He — the holy Rabbainu — the Torah. This is the world. Beyond this there is no world. (Saba laughs.) Ho. Oy — one must speak only of this. Every time that we merit to see ourselves and to speak — one must speak only of this. Each one — each one — what he merited to find in the words of Rabbainu — how to repair and how to be renewed and how to strengthen oneself — to speak only of this with — with the friends, and with — and with all the world. Yes. Because the falsehood — has nothing — has nothing — has no existence, has nothing… Yes.

[The first book he studied was "Hishtapchus HaNefesh."] The falsehood has nothing — it is nothing. [What?] [The first book he found in the garbage bin.] Yes — the time will come — the time will come. [Rebbe Yisroel — I told him…]

And one who wants now — there are already such Torah teachings, such prayers and such words from such a tzaddik — who — who changes, changes nature, changes all the world. He, he… "There is a matter by which everything is turned to good." He turns everything to good. [Rebbe Yisroel?] What? [I told him that your first book was "Hishtapchus HaNefesh."] Ah? I don't remember. [The first book of Rabbainu that you found — it was "Hishtapchus HaNefesh."] Yoy — in a garbage bin — in a garbage bin. This was in a garbage bin. (Saba laughs.) [Yes.] And the owner of the book said to me: "It is mine" — proof! — that you found it in a garbage bin. (Saba laughs.)

I took this book — only the name of the book made a great impression on me. So I did not put it in the genizah — I only studied it. They {planned} to take it away — I did not know that this was Breslov. So they came and saw that I was studying — they knew that this was Breslov: "What is this? What — what are you doing? You are studying a Breslov book?" (Saba laughs.) I had already tasted what this book was. I said: "Yes — I study — I will study Breslov books. I abandon the whole world — this is all my vitality! Yes." So came — the owner of the book came and said to me: "What a low one — you — you are such an insolent one against all the Admo"rim?" (Saba laughs.) "This is my book — give me the book!" I said to him: "I found it in a garbage bin — this is ownerless property — it is mine!" So he said it was his — and I also said it was mine. And he fought me and took the book from me. And I was left without — without the book. (Saba laughs.)

Oy. But — but I heard the news — that there are Breslov books that it is forbidden to study. (Saba laughs.) Yes. And I searched for Breslov books and I did not find — no — they did not print and I did not have — they were not to be obtained. (Saba laughs.) Until the Holy One Blessed Be He helped me and gave me — Rebbe Yisroel Kardonner — and he already gave me the books. (Saba laughs.) {Speedily.}

Oy voy — one must speak of this by day and by night — not to sleep and not to eat. I have no time. (Saba laughs.) One must have compassion on our children and on our generations and on ourselves — to speak only of this. "Who is the man who desires life?" One who wants to look and to be — and to be a servant of Hashem and to serve Hashem in truth — so this is only Rabbainu. This must be announced to all the world. And we see that all the world — they understand this — they, they are drawing themselves to Rabbainu. Yes. (Saba laughs.)

Oy, oy — how cruel I was. My father had Gehinom in this world. He was blind in both eyes — and so poor and in such humiliation. And I was in such a home. And I have miracles in how — how I remained alive in such poverty. Yes. I did not have any bread — I wanted some drop — a drop — a drop of olive oil. (Saba laughs.) And I cried: "Give me another drop." So my mother shouted at me: "But I need the oil for Shabbos!" (Saba laughs.)

And blessed be Hashem — I stood firm… My father wept before me: "I am your father — I — I know that you are still — still young — you do not — do not understand. Breslov — no… No match will — will want you. And you are poor — you have no money. And how… what you are doing." He wept — he and my mother. Yes. And my brothers wept for me. And I was cruel toward the father and the mother — and said: "Only Breslov!" (Saba laughs.)

Now I see how the liars look — yes — how they look — where they are. Yes. Not a trace remains in the world — only the books of Breslov. (Saba laughs.) This — this creates a new world. Every word of Rabbainu. And we must give our souls for this — and bring it into our hearts and into the hearts of our children and our generations — and to speak always only of this — how one merits to emerge from the sins and from the desires. (Saba laughs.) How one merits to repair everything. The power of the holy Rabbainu — he revealed to us that he can help us — yes — he can repair us as we are. (Saba laughs.)

Oy, oy, oy — every Torah teaching that Rabbainu revealed in the world — every word he revealed in the world — this is all — all our vitality and our glory. Yes. This is it. And we must have compassion on ourselves and on our generations and on our offspring and on our generations — to announce to everyone — to all the world — that there is now in these generations — in this darkness — there is already such a light that can help us — to bring us out of sins and desires and to repair everything. Yes. (Saba laughs.)

Oy, oy, oy. Rav Aharon Luria — he was a well-known pedigree and was a scholar and… yes. So I was his neighbor in the yeshivah. And he saw what I was suffering. So he had envy of me. So he — he took from me a book — the book Likutay Moharan — and entered his room in the yeshivah and studied — and studied in Likutay Moharan. (Saba laughs.) So there arose a great commotion in the yeshivah: "Aharon Luria is studying…" And they said to him: "What are you doing?" So: "I — I — I must — I want to study only Breslov books — whatever will be." So they told Rav Moshe Klirs and Rav Motl of Slonim. So… And the trustees of the yeshivah. So they said to him: "Fine — you want to be Breslov? You can be. Only know that you will receive a salary like Yisroel Ber — ask him how much he receives — two liros a month. We — you will receive two liros a month — like Yisroel Ber."

So he said to me: "How is it possible — how is it possible to live on this? I also — I receive twenty liros a month and it is not enough for me. What will I do with two liros? So it is impossible." (Saba laughs.) He said to me every time he saw me: "I envy you — yes — I could not — could not withstand the test." (Saba laughs.) And I had two liros a month — and I danced all night and traveled to Meron and to Yerushalayim. (Saba laughs.) And I had — and I had a good life. The main thing was — I was for the Holy One Blessed Be He… (tape change.)

with the world — that he cannot pray and not — and not… (Saba laughs.) Ah, oy voy, oy voy — who can imagine? Who can tell? Who can tell? However much I tell — it still does not — it still does not… It is impossible to feel what I went through. (Saba laughs.)

I had no money — and I needed to marry off Tziporah. Nu — suffering — only suffering from the market. But a person such as Shmuel {%} — (Saba laughs.) — this there is none — none. Who would give me a bridegroom for my daughter? Yes. Shmuel had a great name — he had a great mind.

[A moment — something at the door, Saba.] Ah?… (tape change.)

{He stole} every month. Oy — they expelled my children from the school: "You did not bring money — if there is no money there is no school!" Yes. And all my daughters do not know how to pray — they do not know to… (Saba laughs.)

Shmuel had a great name — and all the rabbis and all the wealthy men of Yerushalayim wanted Shmuel for their daughter. Yes. And he did not — did not want to listen — he saw this one and that one, and this and that — and no — no — it did not please him. Wealthy men, rabbis and well-known ones. There was one man at my home — a relative of Shmuel — a relative. He said to me — he knew that I had Tziporah — that I had a daughter to marry. So he — he says to me: "I — perhaps Shmuel would be a good match for you?" And I look at him — he does not know me and does not know that I have no way — how — how? What? What is this? Shmuel? The wealthy ones of Yerushalayim and the rabbis of the whole land want him — want to give him a lot of money. And he — and he spoke with — with — with the bride — with — with the young woman — and no — this is not — this is not for me. He came… he — they said to him: "Yisroel Ber has a daughter — perhaps this?" He saw Tziporah and spoke with her. So on the first night — he came that night — {he came} — they had troubles — such wealthy ones want to give him — and he does not want — so there is no bride for him. So he came home and said: "You know? Blessed be Hashem — the Holy One Blessed Be He has given me a bride — I have blessed be Hashem a bride!" (Saba laughs.)

So there was joy in the house: "Shmuel already has a bride!" Yes. (Saba laughs.) Afterwards they asked him: "Who is the bride? Which wealthy one?" "Yisroel Ber!" (Saba laughs.) Everyone knew that I was so poor. (not understood) (Saba laughs.) So the mother said to him: "What — what — what are you doing? Yisroel Ber has — has no money at all. And we also are poor. I… No — no — no — how can you make a wedding? And… what is this?" "This is my bride — Tziporah. The main thing is — this is my bride." (Saba laughs.)

[Rebbe Yisroel.] Nu. [Your connection with Rav Motl of Slonim.] Before the chupah — the custom is that the bride is given a gift — some gift — and to the groom they give a tallis — a large tallis. Yes. I did not have a tallis. So I said: "I have no tallis — I have none." (Saba laughs.) This was without a tallis. Yes. (Saba laughs.)

[Rebbe Yisroel? Your connection with Rav Motl of Slonim — was it before Breslov?] Ah? [Your connection with Rav Motl of Slonim — was it before Breslov?] Rav Motl of Slonim. [Your connection with Rav Motl — was it before — before drawing close to Rabbainu? The connection with Rav Motl —] Nu. [of Slonim.] Nu. [Was it before — before you drew close?] No — after. [After drawing close to Rabbainu?] Yes, yes. (Saba laughs.)

The children — grandchildren that I have in Yerushalayim — and his daughter — of Slonim. What she — what Rav Motl says — he says to his daughter: "I am nullified before Rebbe Yisroel Ber Odesser. I see his Shabbos — the zemiros — the joy of Shabbos. And I have a livelihood and I have every good thing. And I have no joy and I have no… So Yisroel should be my Rebbe." Yes. (Saba laughs.) Yes. His children know this — that he said: "Only he — Breslov, Breslov, Breslov." Yes. (Saba laughs.)

Ah, ah, ah. My wife was in Tzfas and I was in Teveria. We had no clothing — garments. We had no apartment — nothing. And Rav Motl of Slonim — he gave me an apartment and furniture — a table and chairs. Yes. And he brought me into the yeshivah. Yes. Everything — Rav Motl. And when he spoke — he was opposed — he spoke — not, not, not with respect — against Rabbainu — so, so I slammed the door with a great bang: "No — no — do not speak with me anymore — I want no connection with you." (Saba laughs.)

So, so he saw such a thing — he remained — remained like a child: "What is this? Who — who heard such a thing? A person to whom I give furniture and an apartment and…" He had mesiras nefesh for me. He had battles with the trustees of the yeshivah — they were opposed — and he said that they must bring me into the yeshivah and must give me an increase. And he was always in battle with them.